To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

Why is it slander?
What has she said that is untrue?
Someone dying doesn't absolve them from all harm they did when they were alive.

This is just sheer twaddle.

What are your thoughts about that Op?

As always, first comment nails it! 👏👏

To put it simply, I don't believe a lot of what people repeat as reasons why women (or anyone, for that matter) shouldn't support some of these 'causes' or people. When I look into many of these so-called facts, I see that they're being misrepresented or taken out of context. Too often, outright lies go unchallenged.

Do I agree with everything any of these people say, every position they take? No, but there's no-one out there I agree with wholeheartedly on everything, and they much more closely align with my beliefs than anyone I'm seeing on the other side. (And no, it most certainly doesn't all boil down to just 'trans issues', though that is one area where the contrast is stark.)

You can think I'm stupid or brainwashed, of course, but it won't change how I think, speak, or vote.

Yeah, I think that’s a real part of the problem. I don’t for one second think Reform saying that men are not and cannot be women comes from any kind of feminist foundation.

But when Labour, the LibDems and the Greens all don’t know what a woman is, many women are going to gravitate to Reform.

They’re probably going to be hugely let down, but I can see why they do it.

It's not slander. These were public statements by him. It's not slander to repeat someone's statements.

As a woman earning 6 figures Keir Starmer harms my interest more than Farage, badenock, Sunak or Johnson.

Women have a huge range of interests and priorities. To suggest I should prioritise up-skirting purely because of my gender is patronising.

Obviously I'd prefer not to choose, but I'll protect mine and my families financial interests first.

I don't think left or right wing parties support women. Bill Clinton and Peter Mandelson were also guests / friends of Epstein. Labour has never had a woman leader. The socialist and union movement in this country have a horrific record of misogyny and in some cases VAWG. And it's beyond naive of you to think that men from war torn countries with misogynistic views on women are not an increased risk. Maybe start listening to the voices of women from those countries.

I personally find it a little odd when any woman sides with certain Pro-Palestinian factions or votes Lib Dem - a party that specifically said it did not want the feminist vote and has a track record of welcoming or condoning child abusers.

Fact is OP, no political party acts in women's interests - that's why women who work together across party political lines get the most things done. And why individual women's best interests in the short term are served by supporting the men in their communities who have power and resources.

Campus and school shootings seem so normal in the USA so don’t see how people are shocked by it.

Where are you reading he was shot for his views?

What all these people pushing the 'men are the head of the family and should deal with the finances' idea fail to address in any meaningful way is that a lot of marriages end in divorce and a woman, especially a mother, is extremely vulnerable if they have no control over the finances.

In fact women are significantly more likely to end up in poverty.

Pushing the idea that men should have control of finances is absolutely encouraging the consequences - ie in most cases poverty - which they use a follow on 'well divorce is a bad thing'

Which when men are responsible for the vast majority of domestic violence is essentially condoning a situation where women and children are powerless.

By saying that 'well if my husband deals with the finances it lets me out of a boring job' it also encourages sheer laziness. If women want equality, we need to take responsibility too.

Which rights? The same ones that the far right don't want us to have in the first place?

Can you post the link? Because I have watched this and he was talking about the democrat campaigns telling woman they should vote for Harris in secret. I don’t think he ever said what you are saying her said - that women should only vote for who their husbands are voting for, he was actually saying he was disgusted by this campaign that conservative men were forcing their wives who to vote for.

I am a woman and I don’t need you to tell me what to think. After having kids I actually- through my choice and my choice alone - have felt strongly about male and female roles. I WANT to stay home, I WANT to put family first, I want to be a sahm. What he advocated for was a society where that was possible - where having children on an own salary family was the norm allowing woman to have the choice to stay at home.

I mean currentlg Labour aren’t giving me that - they are taxing my family to fuck so we both work. Providing no childcare support apart from mythical breakfast clubs. I mean I actually can’t see anything that Labour are actually doing to support me as a woman.

Are women safer because there are lots of undocumented young men entering the country?

Have you watched the handmaid’s tale? Kirkley’s wife bears an alarming resemblance to one of the characters and the ‘aunts’ feel like they are real life people now. When I read this in my teens I thought only of Saudi Arabia. To imagine a western country with this happening seemed very fantasy land. Scarily it’s not at all now.

I actually am fairly moderate or even conservative on some issues. I worry that the hard right looks very shiny for some young women - a safety and security in these uncertain times. But it absolutely and inevitability ends in the loss of rights, loss of agency and ultimately physical and mental abuse.

I don’t think demonising people is the answer. But I do think it’s important that we recognise many younger women see that a life of working and having a family is pretty darn stressful. The modern dating scene is the Wild West. Children are at their most unhappy at the moment in generations.

These problems DO need addressing and are real. But the answer isn’t that all women must marry young, not have a career and just do as their told!

We do need much better family friendly policies. But I would look more to Europe than America for those.

The left see politics in such a childish, simplistic way. There is 'the left' (the goodies) and then there is 'the right' (the baddies). But what they don't seem to understand is that conservatives are individualists. They think for themselves. And that means they tend to hold a variety of opinions, and often disagree with one another. I know that thinking for yourself is a difficult concept for those on the left to understand, but it really happens. Left-wing people remind me of religious fundamentalists. They don't need to listen to other points of view. And they don't need to think. They're right and everyone else is wrong, end of story. Well some of us aren't content to mindlessly regurgitate left-wing views on every flippin issue.

Many women support the conservative right when it comes to mass immigration because it threatens them and their daughters. Everywhere I look in my home town I see groups of young immigrant men wandering around. My neighbour won't even go into town because she's so intimidated. Watch Alex Philips on YouTube describe what it is like to be a young woman in modern London – to be endlessly hassled and followed by men who can barely speak English.

But that doesn't mean I agree with the conservative right on other issues. I am a republican, a vegetarian, anti-bloodsports, pro-choice and pro- LGBTQ. However, I dislike mass immigration, and I resent the way multiculturalism has been imposed on me and destroyed my sense of national identity.

@meeleymanatee I think you should be able to stay home and look after the children. I don't think that should be your only option though, which is what a lot of the far Christian right want.

Also, did you only start work when Labour came to power? Because otherwise you could have chosen to stay home in the last many years' Conservative government.

Honestly I think a lot of women don't necessarily see the social changes of the past 50 years or so as actually making life better. Widespread porn, gender nonsense, etc. I don't agree with (what I consider to be) the extreme views of Charlie Kirk and others. I think Andrew Tate is human excrement. But if you bundle together leftist ideas vs traditional or rightist ideas, the latter can appear to provide more stability.

I also think if you're quoting someone who has just been murdered it would be fairer to look at full context and be more precise. I didn't come across any 'have to' or 'forced to' in his actual wording. Still don't agree with him, but I don't think any of his views were as hateful or misogynistic as some are making out.

I have had to increase my hours in the last year as our utility bills have gone out of control…. So yes, actually I was mainly at home whilst conservatives were in power but now if we want to pay the bills I have to work more.

i had a fantastic career before children so I have done both but now I actually wish I had had children sooner. That’s my opinion. Of course I have both options but the option of staying home is mostly a pipe dream isn’t it

Maybe its because people are sick of being told they need 'educating' because they have a different opinion.

Re your first sentence - definitely. Some things have improved massively for women and some have got immeasurably worse - porn, strangulation, gender ideology, young girls have their breasts removed on the NHS, street harassment.

It's funny that all the women citing the Handmaids Tale don't point out that Giliad was preceded by a porn-drenched society in which sexual assault was the norm and Offred wonders which is better or worse for women - the libertine violent misogynistic society she came from or the ultra-conservative Handmaid version. It's almost like they might not have read it.

It’s disturbing how many posters keep minimising, defending and attempting to sanitise the hateful rhetoric KC promoted. His transcripts, videos and podcasts are widely available and he has said the things stated in the OP. Absolutely bizarre.

🙄

Well the left seem to want women to lose rights to single sex spaces (and no I don’t just mean toilets), female sports, the right to define a woman without including men, the right for women to meet (the LWS meets always seem to be disrupted by those on the left) and that’s just off the top of my head. The left and the right both hate women, they just show it in different ways.