To be alarmed at the number of women who are throwing support behind causes that are clearly anti-woman?

[DorothyGaleFromKansas]

With the recent threads about flags/immigrants and Charlie Kirk etc, there seem to be a bewildering number of women supporting causes that directly go against their own interests, and it’s baffling and frankly a bit disturbing.

Reform have voted against tougher laws on stalking, sexual harassment and upskirting, against clamping down on revenge porn, and against further protections in the workplace. Farage cited Andrew Tate as “an important voice for men”.

Then you have Trump, who was found to have committed rape, forced himself into changing rooms where teenagers were undressing, made sexual comments about his own daughter, not to mention 34 other felonies, and that’s before we even get to the Epstein files.

Charlie Kirk said that women should only vote if they were voting for the candidate chosen by their husband, that women shouldn’t go on to higher education unless it was to find a husband, that women should have to submit to their husbands, and that little girls as young as 9 or 10 including his own daughters should be forced to give birth to babies conceived as a result of rape.

What has happened to us that there are so many women willing to endorse attitudes like this? And how do we fix it?! How have we sunk so low that there are women who think this is what we all deserve? It’s terrifying.

That statement was pure hysteria hence my laughter.

You can listen to some of his podcasts with his wife, her podcast midweek rise up s4 e6 is with him on submission, I’ll attach some screenshots of the transcript, but this is just scratching the surface. I have followed a lot of fundamentalist Christians ever since I hosted a young woman for several months from a deeply conservative North American religious community. I really don’t think many people understand how deep the thinking that women are supposed to be submissive to men - fathers, husbands, pastors - goes.

Many young western women have no real concept of how recent and fragile their rights are.

Virgin Atlantic hired all of its initial air crew from companies like PanAm and TWA who fired women when they got married.

Sacking women for getting pregnant was the norm.

Married women could not open a bank account or take out a mortgage without their husbands signature until the 80's

Women counted as their husband's chattel for tax return until the 80s.

Too many young women forget how hard their mother's generation fought
for what they take for granted.

When the trans stuff first started getting into the mainstream only right wing media would be critical and publish articles about any problems. There was a movement called “Hands Across the Aisle” where right wing and left wing women joined forces to combat gender identity ideology.

I don't like Trump but when he is willing to get boundary destroying men who pretend to be women out of women's spaces and the democrats are destroying private female spaces and female sport I would 100% vote for him. Weird that you don't mention that the democrats were also a choice for the destruction of women's rights in your original post.

Yes, all those things happened to women, not men who “identified” as women.

Sorry, I mean - I’m horrified but also amused at the stupidity of that! I agree!

He goes into women’s spaces himself!!! He’s literally on film saying he enjoyed barging I for he dressing rooms to ogle the naked teenagers. How is that better?!

Legally you can’t slander the dead, and also, there is nothing slanderous in what the OP said. Charlie Kirk was a misogynist. It’s right there in his own words on his social media accounts, speeches and interviews.

Just because he’s dead that doesn’t mean we all need to pretend he didn’t openly hold the views he expressed openly for years on a daily basis.

Thank you. Everything I have read on this from a USA evangelical standpoint shows submission as something wives do to husbands and husbands do to Christ.

There is a difference between those parties who haven’t done enough to support women, and the ones who are actively trying to harm them. The challenging of abortion rights, targeting diversity initiatives, talking about removing protections in employment law for women etc goes far beyond just not doing enough for women.

Taking one part of what you disagree with and tarring a party’s entirety with the same brush shows a deep lack of critical thinking.

If you want to pretend the parties caught up in the trans right culture wars that the further right parties and media are whipping up, are doing the same things to women as Trump and Reform are trying to, you really need to educate yourself. I suggest picking up a history book.

Again. Listen to his podcasts with his wife.

https://www.mrserikakirk.com/listen/episode/3e7b4474/s04-06-submission-is-not-a-dirty-word-feat-charlie-kirk

So... What? We can undo all that as long as the party that does it says women have a vagina first?

Trump also breached those same boundaries. He bragged about it.

@BauhausOfEliott I agree. However the CK defenders will deny that he has said anything misogynistic. Or even deny that misogyny exists at all. It’s a very different reality some people live in…

Oh 😭😭😭, that's okay, they're honestly ridiculous

And the women, just ugh

It’s only slander if it isn’t true, I’m afraid. Charlie Kirk being dead doesn’t mean he wasn’t a total c**t when he was alive.

It’s a prerequisite, being true. We’re not going to undo it by pretending being female doesn’t matter, are we? 🙄

Excellent point. The post above yours has some quotes about how nice it is to leave finances to your husband because dealing with them is a pain in the arse. I have noticed a lot of SM content over the last few years about how women in the past had it right because men looked after them and life was therefore easier.

Yes, going to work and managing money is tiring and dull. But I'm willing to take them on for the autonomy it gives. The rose-tinted glasses about life pre-women's rights and complacency about what we have now is really concerning.

Maybe it's me seeing it wrongly, though. How nice of all these men to step in and take on the hard work so we don't have to. Nothing in it for them, presumably.

@Francine84 Careful, you’ll be accused shortly of ‘gloating and grave dancing’ 💀

The majority of "horrific" quotes attributed to Charlie Kirk have turned out to be not that bad, and have been taken completely out of context.

There are clearly a lot of people on social media that take joy from the death of people that they disagree with, which is what scares me.

Theres not a lot women can vote for in reality. What causes actually support us?

The left wing is anti women, it hasnt protected women against men who want to infiltrate womens safe spaces or who want to give the message to small girls that being a boy is better for them. And we can give you drugs and surgery and ruin your female body to achieve that

The left doesnt protect lesbians from being called bigots if they want only to have relationships with actual women

The left doesnt see an issue with embracing different cultures which are anti women by their nature, its called diversity apparently. If you say you dont agree with or enjoy being around a culture which is fairly right wing, homophobic, misogynistic, you are in turn viewed as right wing yourself.

The right wing is fairly anti women. Not much more to say there.

What is left for us?

Because making it law that it's ok for ANY man who "identifies" or even says the magical "I identify" words to do it is obviously worse than one man doing it illegally.

Look, I'm not a conservative evangelical American but I know people who are. You are right that it "goes deep" but it's because it's an ideology that is coherent within itself, i.e., men have a corresponding responsibility to provide in this system.

I do not have such a marriage and I don't want one.

However I also don't want one of the Mumsnet marriages partnerships ("it's just a piece of paper") where the woman has to save up for her own mat leave and pay half the rent despite earning a quarter of his salary.