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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gun control in the US

179 replies

Fraudornot · 12/09/2025 21:21

With the assassination of Charlie Kirk looking like it’s been carried out by someone probably suffering from mental health issues with access to guns, why are Americans so unwilling to address gun control. I would love to hear from Americans to know why there is the reluctance.

OP posts:
TheSixthBestOption · 13/09/2025 12:16

Also if you think about the amount of money spent on alcohol-related issues, including the huge level of NHS resources, such as in A&E from accidents/alcohol abuse, in oncology from cancers caused or contributed to by alcohol. Then add drunk driving. Then think about the amount of police time taken up by alcohol-related incidents and violence, the domestic violence fuelled by alcohol, football hooliganism, etc. etc. All of these taxpayer funds and time resources could be put to better use actually savings lives, fixing the NHS, addressing crime etc. Alcohol has a massively detrimental effect on our society and is linked to many thousands of deaths a year in the UK. But as a society we believe this detriment is worth it to have the personal freedom to drink alcohol.

It really is a similar thought process for Americans who value their personal freedom to carry guns over the detriment to society of gun crime.

TheSixthBestOption · 13/09/2025 12:17

Also alcohol is literally a poison that has only detrimental effects on humans, there is no physical benefit whatsoever to drinking alcohol. And I say that as someone who had too much wine last night!

AngeloMysterioso · 13/09/2025 12:38

They’d rather lose their children than their guns.

Dweetfidilove · 13/09/2025 12:50

Are they really running with the 'mental health' spiel again?

Fraudornot · 13/09/2025 13:06

If we use the alcohol analogy - there is lots of public health education goes on with alcohol. Is there anything similar for guns in the US? Are there voices speaking out against them?

OP posts:
HRTQueen · 13/09/2025 13:19

My family live the US and I have spent a lot of time there

The right to gun ownership is a belief that is so ingrained in the culture but is alien to us and much of Europe as founded differently. Even the most liberal Californians I know are not totally against gun ownership

It would be like taking away property ownership here how would that go ? It would never happen

it’s never ever going to change laws may pass where it’s harder to buy a gun legally which is meaningless as so many are in circulation but the right to have gun ownership in the US won’t change

YankSplaining · 13/09/2025 13:27

(points to username)

Part of the reason the Second Amendment exists is because as a new country that had just fought a war to free ourselves from oppression, we were aware that sometimes tyranny exists and people need to physically protect themselves from it. Later world history bears this out - keep in mind that years before the Nazis were sending Jews to concentration camps, they were taking weapons away from Jewish gun owners and made it illegal for Jews to buy guns. I find it interesting that so many people say Trump is a fascist, yet still want American citizens to no longer have guns. You want an allegedly fascist government to be the only people with guns?!

People saying that “mentally ill people shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns” haven’t thought it out. My cousin has bipolar disorder. For several years, she was stalked by her ex-boyfriend, who beat her during their relationship and was threatening her life. If she’d wanted to buy a gun to defend herself from him, I wouldn’t have wanted her to be denied that ability. It’s realistic to deny someone a gun permit if they have a history of criminal violence, but disallowing mentally ill people to buy guns would leave up to twenty percent of the American populace more or less defenseless against criminals with guns.

Then there’s the practicalities. Who would take all the guns? What gives them that right to take them? Do we think that criminals are going to nicely surrender their weapons like the law-abiding people would? Some people are ex-military - you’re going to tell them that the US government used to trust them with a gun when it was in the US government’s interests, but now that they want one for self-defense, they can’t be trusted to have one?

I think that if guns disappeared tomorrow, people who wanted to create political violence and mass attacks would start bombing things instead. (Columbine, for example, was supposed to be largely a bombing attack with the killers also shooting people, but Klebold and Harris’s bombs failed to detonate.)

Lelophants · 13/09/2025 13:29

What about banning driving over a certain age or having to redo your full driving license aged 60? Definitely a good idea. Most people wouldnt like it as they wouldnt pass, but also shows how they need it.

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 14:00

smallpinecone · 13/09/2025 07:30

But again - these rules and regulations are fine when people follow them. But a hell of a lot of people won’t. And no one can make them!

The law-abiding might comply, but it won’t make a blind bit of difference to the law-breakers, and considering the amount of guns in the US - 500 million of them! - who on earth is going to enforce these rules? The army, the police? The scale of gun ownership makes it an impossibility. It just can’t be done.

"We can't solve everything so we're going to do nothing"

58% of gun deaths in the US are suicides. The US has an unusually high suicide rate for a western democracy and having easy access to the means to kill oneself will be a significant factor. It often takes only a small intervention to distract someone contemplating suicide so making it more difficult to access lethal weapons (such as by making a new applicant for a licence wait three months) can only help with that. Removal of the exception in the Brady Bill that allows private sellers to trade guns without background checks would help too. Then there's safe storage - requiring guns and ammunition to be secured. Even if you don't enforce that much, the next time that a kid accidentally shoots themself because their parent left a loaded firearm lying around the house you can prosecute the parent and hopefully set an example. Then there's FAWA, which could be brought back. There are justifiable reasons for private individuals owning hunting rifles, shotguns etc. There is no justifiable reason for an individual owning a semi-automatic rifle.

Just because you can't stop every single death, doesn't mean that you shouldn't try and stop a few thousand.

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 14:08

smallpinecone · 13/09/2025 07:34

Added to which the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution. It’s set in stone. It’s one of the founding principles of the nation. In some way perhaps the US is hampered by this now - the constitution was created centuries ago for a different time, for different people, when the world was a different place. We’re fortunate that our constitution here in the UK is unwritten. But the US is hampered by this document as no progression or deviation from these founding principles is possible.

Edited

The fact that it is an amendment (one of 27) indicates that the US Constitution is not set in stone at all. Indeed the Founding Fathers always envisaged that it would be changed and improved as time wore on. For that matter, restrictions have existed in the past (such as FAWA) and the interpretation of the amendment has changed over time as the Supreme Court has become more politicised.

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 14:13

Telemicus · 13/09/2025 08:00

The best analogy I know is speed limits. How would you feel if the government decreed that all vehicles had to be fitted with a device to stop them exceeding the speed limit? Many people (including me) would like it, but many would see it as an infringement of freedom, and affecting their personal property which might be a person's pride and joy.

There might be tenuous arguments about how the ability to speed in a car/carry a gun could, under very rare circumstances, provide safety, but overall these freedoms cause many deaths and suffering.

You know that all new cars now come with ISA? Lorries have a limiter that cuts the throttle at 56mph (90kph).

MoFadaCromulent · 13/09/2025 14:33

Wooly42 · 13/09/2025 11:52

A better analogy (which CK used in a debate) is to say who would support a ban on driving vehicles , which would save thousands of deaths but most people accept those deaths as the price of the freedom to drive.

If they make a car that I can carry in to a school and mow down a room full of 5 year olds then yeah I'm fine banning that car.

Similarly if they start doing add ons to cars to mean they are specifically designed to kill more things quicker, not as a side effect of another main purpose for which the add on was designed, specifically to kill more quicker, yeah I am happy to say my freedom to drive the Fiat AR-15 is one we can all give up

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 14:57

Is it the case that the gun lobbies are so powerful that even under democrat governments, they weren’t able to push some gun control through?
@everythingthelighttouches gerrymandering means that it is rare that the Democrats have the Presidency, the House, and the Senate all at the same time. And given that there may be one or two Democrat gun nuts you'd need a strong majority. Even if you've got the numbers, there are tricks like filibustering that may be used to drag out the legislative process until it runs out of time.

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 15:32

SeeYouInHell · 13/09/2025 11:33

Brilliant analogy! Thank you. There would be a war in the UK if you took away people’s right to poison themselves. Alcohol causes so much violence, pain and death, yet the majority of Brits are as attached to it as the Americans are to their guns.

But we have actually taken steps to reduce the harm from alcohol. Drink-driving laws, public education etc. What steps (beyond "thoughts and prayers") has the US taken to reduce gun deaths since Sandy Hook? If anything there is pressure from some Republicans to deregulate further.

Just because a complete ban wouldn't be acceptable, doesn't mean that nothing can be done to make things less bad.

ElatedShark · 13/09/2025 15:33

Sir Charlie Kirk would not want that, the right to carry guns is the right of all and there is no such thing as empathy

TTTBeawinner · 13/09/2025 15:34

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SeeYouInHell · 13/09/2025 15:35

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 15:32

But we have actually taken steps to reduce the harm from alcohol. Drink-driving laws, public education etc. What steps (beyond "thoughts and prayers") has the US taken to reduce gun deaths since Sandy Hook? If anything there is pressure from some Republicans to deregulate further.

Just because a complete ban wouldn't be acceptable, doesn't mean that nothing can be done to make things less bad.

Very good point

DdraigGoch · 13/09/2025 15:36

Wooly42 · 13/09/2025 11:52

A better analogy (which CK used in a debate) is to say who would support a ban on driving vehicles , which would save thousands of deaths but most people accept those deaths as the price of the freedom to drive.

Many of us don't view traffic fatalities to be acceptable either. That's why the Vision Zero movement exists.

JHound · 13/09/2025 15:43

“Mental health issues”?

JHound · 13/09/2025 15:44

Wooly42 · 13/09/2025 11:52

A better analogy (which CK used in a debate) is to say who would support a ban on driving vehicles , which would save thousands of deaths but most people accept those deaths as the price of the freedom to drive.

It’s not really a better analogy is it.

Unless you view guns as as essential to daily modern life as motor vehicles

JHound · 13/09/2025 15:45

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Ew.

OneGladRoseTiger · 13/09/2025 15:58

Fraudornot · 12/09/2025 21:21

With the assassination of Charlie Kirk looking like it’s been carried out by someone probably suffering from mental health issues with access to guns, why are Americans so unwilling to address gun control. I would love to hear from Americans to know why there is the reluctance.

Tell me you know nothing about gun ownership here (I’m an American living in the US), without telling me you know nothing about it…

Both federal and state laws prohibit those with mental illness from purchasing or owning a firearm. But people break the law, surprising as that might sound to you. Even Hunter Biden, son of a former president, lied on his gun application. In most cases of gun homicides, the shooter had either lied to get the gun, or the gun didn’t even lawfully belong to them (it was stolen or acquired through some other illegal means). And those people would cause harm no matter what.

Bumblebee72 · 13/09/2025 16:06

OneGladRoseTiger · 13/09/2025 15:58

Tell me you know nothing about gun ownership here (I’m an American living in the US), without telling me you know nothing about it…

Both federal and state laws prohibit those with mental illness from purchasing or owning a firearm. But people break the law, surprising as that might sound to you. Even Hunter Biden, son of a former president, lied on his gun application. In most cases of gun homicides, the shooter had either lied to get the gun, or the gun didn’t even lawfully belong to them (it was stolen or acquired through some other illegal means). And those people would cause harm no matter what.

Yet interesting people with mental issues rarely go on school shooting sprees in other countries.

Bumblebee72 · 13/09/2025 16:09

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To be frank I'd rather "be pussy" than have to worry about my kids getting shoot at school.

R0ckandHardPlace · 13/09/2025 16:17

It’s the sheer numbers that are staggering to me.

Every year, 117,345 people are shot. 42,654 people die from gun violence. 16,651 are murdered. 76,725 people survive gunshot injuries.

Compare that to our deaths by stabbing in the UK, which was 262 in the past year. Their population is roughly five times ours.

It is absolute insanity.