Page 17 | Had you heard of Charlie Kirk before yesterday?

Havetoagree · 2025-09-11T20:28:21+00:00

Just that really? I hadn’t and wondering if I’m the only one. And why is it such a big story? I guess the association with trump. What would be the equivalent level of fame over here?

EveDeservesBetter · 11/09/2025 23:39

In my 60s, no Insta, Tik Tik or Twitter.

Knew of him, didn't agree with many of his views but agreed with his opinion that children's bodies should not be mutilated for the cult of T, that detransitioners deserved to be heard and helped,

Being shot for your opinions though... is that where we are?.

CoffeeLipstickKeys · 11/09/2025 23:40

Jamesblonde2 · 11/09/2025 23:34

They are words. Chill out. He hasn’t killed anyone.

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Really? Is your mate Beavis is looking for you?
Chill out, yes. Only words. I mean what harm can mere words do?Isn’t as if words incite individuals to act out, or words cause division or unrest.
isnt as if only spoken,only written word has had any impact

GentleSheep · 11/09/2025 23:40

No I hadn't heard of him at all.

Calmomiletea · 11/09/2025 23:41

There might be a level-of-fame equivalent in the UK, but there is not a single person like him here in terms of talent and character.

This whole thing highlights further the inability of people in the UK to actually have civil debate on hot topics - mumsnet is a PRIME example.

pugnaciouspixie · 11/09/2025 23:41

He was 31. Married with 2 kids.

I disagreed with him on everything he stood for.

He didn't deserve to be murdered for his horrible opinions. No one does.

Dramatic · 11/09/2025 23:42

roaringmouse · 11/09/2025 23:38

I think you may be referring to a question put to Charlie in a quick-fire debate about whether he would want (not force) his daughter to carry a pregnancy to term if she were raped. He said yes, not because he excused or minimised rape (in fact he called rape “evil”), but because, as a Christian conservative, he believed abortion itself was also evil. For him, life begins at conception, and even in horrific circumstances, that life was still sacred and worth protecting.

He made the point that when we meet someone in adulthood, we cannot tell whether they were conceived in love or violence, that their humanity and value are equal. His stance was that you don’t fight one evil with another, but with goodness. He said he would want to surround his daughter with love and raise the baby within his family.

You don’t have to agree with his position to see that he was being ideologically consistent. In this example, Charlie was holding on to a moral framework he believed in, however difficult the example put to him.

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No, he said "the baby would be birthed", that doesn't imply any choice or debate in the matter.

MasterBeth · 11/09/2025 23:42

Notaflippinclue · 11/09/2025 23:37

Killing for opinions, not a good look for the left really!

It wasn't a "good look" when the far right killer stabbed Jo Cox to death.

It's not a good look for anyone.

Why try and pretend it is a horror from just one side?

Change2banon · 11/09/2025 23:42

No I hadn’t .. but no matter who or what he was, whatever his views, he did not deserve to be executed the way he was. I’ve seen the video footage and it’s horrific 😢

GoodOldTrayBake · 11/09/2025 23:43

Tauranga · 11/09/2025 21:39

Totally disagree.

He wasn't a rabble rouser, he tried to reason with people through debate and reason.

I don't think we really have an equivalent here. He travelled around universities talking and debating.

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How is calling black people moronic and criminals a reasoned debate? Or telling women to submit to their husbands? Or saying a 10 year old rape victim should be forced to give birth to the product of that rape?

CJsGoldfish · 11/09/2025 23:43

Jamesblonde2 · 11/09/2025 23:34

They are words. Chill out. He hasn’t killed anyone.

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Only words?
Just some banter
Just boys being boys
Words can't hurt you

Chill out?
Stop being so sensitive
You just need to relax/calm down/ stop being so emotional

Ugh! Gross

Words never have consequences, right?

MasterBeth · 11/09/2025 23:43

Calmomiletea · 11/09/2025 23:41

There might be a level-of-fame equivalent in the UK, but there is not a single person like him here in terms of talent and character.

This whole thing highlights further the inability of people in the UK to actually have civil debate on hot topics - mumsnet is a PRIME example.

Hot topics: are blacks inferior to whites? Why women should stay in the kitchen under God's laws.

What a character!

MeTooOverHere · 11/09/2025 23:44

EveDeservesBetter · 11/09/2025 23:39

In my 60s, no Insta, Tik Tik or Twitter.

Knew of him, didn't agree with many of his views but agreed with his opinion that children's bodies should not be mutilated for the cult of T, that detransitioners deserved to be heard and helped,

Being shot for your opinions though... is that where we are?.

His opinions weren't just his opinions though. He wasn't Joe in the street. He was actively promoting the white supremacist, Christian nationalist agenda. He went around on speaking tours pushing a fundamentalist Bible-based view of how society should be and advocating for that to become the future of the USA. And for the white folks to again become the dominant race (ie forcibly deporting people with darker coloured skins).

Thumbelina9 · 11/09/2025 23:46

roaringmouse · 11/09/2025 23:38

I think you may be referring to a question put to Charlie in a quick-fire debate about whether he would want (not force) his daughter to carry a pregnancy to term if she were raped. He said yes, not because he excused or minimised rape (in fact he called rape “evil”), but because, as a Christian conservative, he believed abortion itself was also evil. For him, life begins at conception, and even in horrific circumstances, that life was still sacred and worth protecting.

He made the point that when we meet someone in adulthood, we cannot tell whether they were conceived in love or violence, that their humanity and value are equal. His stance was that you don’t fight one evil with another, but with goodness. He said he would want to surround his daughter with love and raise the baby within his family.

You don’t have to agree with his position to see that he was being ideologically consistent. In this example, Charlie was holding on to a moral framework he believed in, however difficult the example put to him.

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So never mind the impact on a 10 year old if going through a pregnancy and a birth? Is that in her best interests? Or is he just a man telling a girl what to do with her body?

Justagirl95 · 11/09/2025 23:46

pugnaciouspixie · 11/09/2025 23:41

He was 31. Married with 2 kids.

I disagreed with him on everything he stood for.

He didn't deserve to be murdered for his horrible opinions. No one does.

Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?

Dramatic · 11/09/2025 23:46

Calmomiletea · 11/09/2025 23:41

There might be a level-of-fame equivalent in the UK, but there is not a single person like him here in terms of talent and character.

This whole thing highlights further the inability of people in the UK to actually have civil debate on hot topics - mumsnet is a PRIME example.

This debate has been pretty civil, we're 17 pages in.

VanCleefArpels · 11/09/2025 23:47

MeTooOverHere · 11/09/2025 23:44

His opinions weren't just his opinions though. He wasn't Joe in the street. He was actively promoting the white supremacist, Christian nationalist agenda. He went around on speaking tours pushing a fundamentalist Bible-based view of how society should be and advocating for that to become the future of the USA. And for the white folks to again become the dominant race (ie forcibly deporting people with darker coloured skins).

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But the point is many Joes agreed with what he was saying. Now you and I may have different views, but are you saying it’s only ok to “actively promote” views with which you agree? If so, you are part of the problem Charlie Kirk was highlighting

Justagirl95 · 11/09/2025 23:47

Change2banon · 11/09/2025 23:42

No I hadn’t .. but no matter who or what he was, whatever his views, he did not deserve to be executed the way he was. I’ve seen the video footage and it’s horrific 😢

I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the second amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational.

Whoopdedoop · 11/09/2025 23:47

Littledogball · 11/09/2025 21:29

Yes, I had watched him loads in Insta. Really sad to hear the news yesterday. I didn’t agree with everything he said but he was intelligent and respectful .

The same for me - his debates were interesting even if I didn’t agree with everything he said. Very shocked and saddened to hear the news.

PrincessFiorimonde · 11/09/2025 23:48

No, I hadn't heard of him till yesterday. For context, I'm 65 and not on Instagram. I don't have children, but my nephews and nieces who are teens/early 20s, and do use Insta, didn't know about him either. (We're all in the UK.)
Having read about the man, I have to say he doesn't sound like a person I would have admired, but of course I think it's dreadful that he was murdered. I may be a leftie, but I don't agree with any such killing and I feel very sad for his wife and children.

Zodiacrobat · 11/09/2025 23:48

Chocolatebiscuit90 · 11/09/2025 22:05

I’m stunned at how many people thought he was a “good man” and respected his views. Do you know what he actually said?

Here are some quotes.

“if I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like boy, I hope he’s qualified.”

”Reject feminism. Submit to your husband. You’re not in charge.”

And “the baby would be delivered” when asked if he would support his 10 year old daughter if she was raped and wanted an abortion.

"I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment.”

Gun control, vaccines, and face masks were about "taking freedoms away from others" and urged his followers, "Don't fall for it."

“I think empathy is a made up, new age term”

And SO much more hateful, scary stuff.

People on here really think those are good POVs? His views were harmful. He was a bigot and an extremist.

Reading that people on this thread like what he said really frightens me.

This. His views were abhorrent.

ForTipsyFinch · 11/09/2025 23:49

LeftFooter · 11/09/2025 23:36

I wouldn’t personally use a term like “prowling blacks” but if he was saying that there is a higher rate of offending in some ethnicities in the US he wasn’t wrong. This is cut and pasted from Wikipedia, not the greatest reference source but I doubt it’s completely wrong:

Robbery
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey in 2002, robberies with white victims and black offenders were more than 12 times more common than the opposite.[57][58]
Victim surveys
In 1978, Michael Hindelang compared data from the National Crime Victimization Survey (then known as the National Crime Survey, or NCS) to data from the Uniform Crime Reports, both from 1974. He found that NCS data generally agreed with UCR data in regards to the percent of perpetrators of rape, robbery, and assault who were black.[59] For instance, Hindelang's analysis found that both the NCS and UCR estimated that 62% of robbery offenders were black in the United States in 1974.[60]: 327 A 2004 National Crime Victimization Survey report which analyzed carjacking over 10 years found that carjacking victims identified 56% of offenders as black, 21% as white, and 16% as indigenous American or Asian.[61][62][63]

Citing crime statistics to justify terms like “prowling blacks” whether you would use the term personally or not is misleading, and tbh racist…The numbers do not prove inherent criminality; they reflect complex social, economic and policing dynamics.

Additionally, stats are ALWAYS context dependent. They are socially constructed tools and meaningless without analysis.
‘62% of robbery offenders in 1974 were black needs context’ - Black Americans are a minority population…Overrepresentation in arrest or survey data often reflects systemic issues around institutionalised racism and NOT innate criminal tendencies, which you seem to be implying.

Cherry picking stats from the 70s like they’re timeless and relevant in modern society is misleading. If you were to look at the data overall, you would see crime is fluid and changes from state to state and city to city. It is not and never has been a fixed reality. This is not a responsible use of data, and Wikipedia is a garbage source.

ArmyOfNorks · 11/09/2025 23:49

I hadn’t heard of him either, and I am still not sure I understand much about him.

pugnaciouspixie · 11/09/2025 23:50

Justagirl95 · 11/09/2025 23:46

Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?

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Yes. A vile opinion.

And?

GladioliGreen · 11/09/2025 23:50

Notaflippinclue · 11/09/2025 23:37

Killing for opinions, not a good look for the left really!

This is the divisive nonsense that puts me off, 'the left' like it's just one great big monolith.

Minnesota House Speaker Rep. Melissa Hortman and her husband's assination, the shooting of state senator John Hoffman and his wife in front of their child, the stalking of other Democrats received a fraction of the attention that this influencers death has received so maybe you didn't hear of it but unfortunately political assassination seems to be on the rise in the US fullstop, it isn't a 'left' or a 'right' issue.

LeftFooter · 11/09/2025 23:50

I definitely don’t agree with him insulting a theoretical black customer services person either. BUT the rise of affirmative action does lead to accusations of people being in posts purely because of their colour. This may or may not be a reasonable accusation. If anything I’d say it’s unfair to the theoretical black person who gets the job on merit and is then suspected of being a “diversity hire”.

All this becomes even murkier when applied to the aviation industry because it turns out that the American air traffic control authority has actually changed its hiring criteria (prizing a biographical questionnaire over qualifications) and is now facing a legal challenge by disgruntled would-be employees who weren’t hired after their training, they say because they arent black: https://iclg.com/news/22215-federal-aviation-administration-facing-class-action-over-diversity-hires/amp

This ties in with his black pilot comment. Again, not something I’d say myself nor defend, but this context makes a difference IMO.

Federal Aviation Administration facing class action over diversity hires | ICLG

A class action filed years before this week’s fatal air crash in Washington, DC, could shed some light on President Trump’s unverified claims.

https://iclg.com/news/22215-federal-aviation-administration-facing-class-action-over-diversity-hires/amp