Mumsnet censorship

[anonymouselephantx]

Mumsnet has been deleting any comment at all that criticises Charlie Kirk... just because he has died does not mean he is infallible. He is still an evil person who did and said evil things, contributed to so much suffering of families at the hands of ICE etc., mocked the Palestinians undergoing a genocide? Mumsnet, disturbing much? I had to get MN by email to delete a thread of mine as I was getting bullied and people were making personal attacks against me (the talk guidelines say personal attacks will be deleted, yet I had to BEG for this), but they are censoring anything anyone says about Charlie Kirk? Why are we not allowed to have freedom of speech and freedom to debate, especially when it is someone who did and said SO MUCH EVIL!

'his killer was a conservative white 22 year old male'

His parents we're republicans that does not mean he was. Kids have their own beliefs you know.

He was allegedly gay with a trans boyfriend. Looking at all the hysteria on here about comments Kirk made that you rightly cannot change sex I think that was the murderer's issue, the politics his parents supported irrelevant.

You’re still defending someone who said that abortion is worse than the holocaust? That is the most anti semetic, nazi statement I have ever heard. Your morals need to be investigated.

My morals are fine I just have different opinions to you. That's life, toughen up a bit.
You need to accept everyone is different, they arent all 'nazis'. You cannot control people's thoughts and opinions.

Robert Rinder, a Jewish man who’s family were actually affected by the Holocaust said this:

When every opponent is called a Nazi, history is cheapened, debate is destroyed, and lives are put at risk. Abusing the word Nazi doesn’t only insult history, it poisons politics, fuels hatred, and costs lives.

He’s right.

We cannot go about calling everyone Hitler or a Nazi. Hitler was a league largely of his own, and it’s an insult to the millions of people who remain affected by him and his actions to suggest that everyone you don’t like is as bad. They’re not.

Maybe the rest of us, who didn’t have family murdered during the holocaust, should listen to those who actually did.

It is appalling isn't it how 'nazi' is bandied about as an insult as if people have no clue what actual nazis are or what they did.

It's the ultimate smug put down attempt to.'Mike drop' conversation ender.
'I'm going to call you a 'Nazi' and everyone will know how righteous and correct I am in my argument, just for calling you that.
It's appalling and insulting to the reality of the atrocity that is the Holocaust.

Oh yeah, one of those pesky far right republicans from a Mormon family with a trans boyfriend. Wow, how stupid can you be? This is the conservative media doing everything they can to not admit that one of their own idiots killed another one of their own idiots.

Also, trans shooters, can count on one hand, 21-30 year old, straight, white, conservative male school shooters account for the other 98%, but please make it a trans issue. Fucking idiots.

@GetOffMyLan so on the one hand Charlie Kirk was a terrible Nazi and bigot who wanted to kill all trans people and gays and chain women to the sink but on the other he wasn’t sufficiently right wing so had to be assassinated by a person on the right?

Perhaps the people who agree with him that others are less human and should be below them could...stop? And people like you could stop normalising people holding such despicable views by shrugging at people agreeing that some people are white supremacists? What a stupid question

Umm he said she took a WHITE PERSONS space i.e. a space owed to a white person because they have a higher brain processing power. Aren't you embarrassed to be defending white supremacy? I wonder if you go around doing that with your whole chest in person or do you just do it anonymously online?

He wasn't assassinated, he was murdered. He was a shitty podcaster not the queen. And he was murdered by a member of the group who does 98% of the mass shootings in America, conservative, white, hetero, republican male.

This approach is ridiculous. When the "views" are on whether other groups do people are as equally deserving of humanity that's not a different view point. We aren't disagreeing on an economic policy, we're disagreeing on whether everyone regardless of their colour,.sex or sexual orientation is deserving of the same human rights as starlight white men. The fact you think thats a tolerable opinion in this day and age is embarrassing -please explain why? Please tell me how to respectfully agree to disagree that some people are less than human? And then tell me why you think that the supremacists are the more tolerate ones?

@GetOffMyLan both of your contentions are untrue. His murder clearly fits the criteria for an “asassination” and there is no credible evidence to support your second statement.

If I were you I’d wait a bit for making sweeping assessments as to the political views of the killer.

Do the briefest research before you type such lies - Charlie documented and encouraged people to target professors, doxxing them online, because he wanted them to be scared into submission and not talk about their left wing or progressive views..
The fact that posters think someone arguing back against Charlie and his ilks fascist views and laying them out in black and white is somehow silencing is a ridiculous interpretation.

Also, can you give an example of when your humanity was last debated please?.when did you last watch a debate about whether you really had the brain processing power or inherent value that other people had or that maybe your loss of freedom was an acceptable cost? Please since your so wise on tolerance, teach us how you handled that. Would love to know.

You still haven't answered what differentiates a nice racist from a not nice one or a polite misogynist from an impolite one?

No one wants to control people's opinions but Charlie didn't just have opinions - he had aims. As do his peers (you perhaps since you're riding so damn hard for him) and you want to love in a world that subjugates people. Somehow they're then surprised or upset when people call your a fascist, toughen up a bit maybe? Keep your opinions but when you start campaigning for abortion restrictions, barring gay marriage, the roll back of women's rights or civil rights that's not an opinion anymore.

@Yelleryeller have you actually listened to Charlie Kirk in full rather than relying on edited sound bites on social media? Alastair Campbell has apologised this morning for doing just that and a lot more people are going to have to do the same.

I don’t agree with many, if not most, of his views but I don’t recognise the descriptions of him on this thread. Context is everything, particularly when discussing the Bible. Just like it is with other faiths.

Yes I've been watching and familiar with Kirk for many many years...which views did you agree with? Everyone keeps wanting to say "I didn't agree with everything" so vaguely, what did you agree with and what didn't you agree with ?.

If people are uncapitalizing, the shoe fits pretty damn snugly doesn't it?

I’ll go first!

I don’t agree with any of his views on abortion, or race.

I’m atheist, so do not agree with any of his views on religion.

I do agree in a meritocracy in the workplace, I do not want to be given a job on the basis of my sex, I want to earn it.

I also agree that body alternating treatment should not be available to those under the age of 18.

@Yelleryeller I am an atheist so don’t agree with him on many of his views.

I do however agree with him that laws should not be made in the wake of and in direct response to terrible tragedies. We have seen it many times in the UK where the urge to act in response to a terrible crime leads to bad law.

I also agree with him that the decline of the family unit is the single biggest problem facing western societies in a cultural sense. And I also agree with him that humans cannot change sex.

Okay, great! Now we know what you agree with and there's probably a million people who hold those views that aren't also racist misogynists that want children to watch public executions and women to submit to men - can I ask why the racism and misogyny isn't a redline for you in understanding why some people found his despicable and don't want to mourn him? And why based on sharing two pretty limited views with the man (who btw he wanted to and was involved in a political sphere that was absolutely enacting those restrictions on abortion for example) you're riding him so damn hard critiquing OP for not mourning him?

Isn't it a bit embarrassing for someone who claims to support bodily autonomy to be defending a man so hard who cheered on and lobbied politically in a country that went on to drastically remove abortion rights in many states leaving women in danger. This isn't about talking crap, it's about someone who actually founded a political organisation that radicalised and inflamed the political scene which succeeded in electing Trump and the republican lawmakers that have taken away a woman's right to choose, and instead of being mad at that you're gonna shame people who find those people intolerable. But hey maybe diversity initiatives rile you up that much that you don't care about people being harmed. Weird choice.

Where do you stand on his views about black peoples humanity please? I note you completely left out his racism

Also I'll ask you the same as I asked PP - if you don't agree with the very real world political aims he was assisting in bringing into action - why are you criticising people for calling it out? Remember, people are doing so because as predicted the right is absolutely going to continue with these rollbacks of people's rights and use Charlie as a martyr, like people are now by shutting down critique of these policies as disrespectful.

Also,.define the family unit and it's decline please, given that's often a dog whistle against gay parents and single parent households.

@SleeplessInWherever @AzurePanda Also why, for both of you, is his assistance in the January insurrection not a redline for you? You both support him in being anti trans so bad you don't care about his utter disdain for a democratic society?

Not embarrassed in the slightest.

I disagreed with Charlie Kirk on his most controversial views, like most people do. I’m a working woman, breadwinner, I definitely disagree that my place is in the home being subservient to a man.

But - I’m not defending his views. I’m defending his right to have them. People are allowed opinions that we disagree with.

My red line isn’t “not mourning,” I’m not mourning either. Didn’t know the guy, why would I.

My red line, in this case, is taking the opportunity of anyone’s death to declare how much you dislike them. Just don’t go to the funeral, that’s okay. But the performance isn’t necessary.

There are dead that we speak ill of. But I thought that was reserved for actual dictators, murderers and terroists. Not internet “Nazis,” actual Hitler. In my view, Kirk doesn’t meet that threshold.