To think the time is coming when a universal basic income is seen as a necessity?

[DoubtfulCat]

AI is replacing a lot of jobs which were previously highly specialised- like translation- as well as entry-level jobs into careers like law. Because the jobs which are hardest to automate seem to be those which are currently either very well paid (like senior managers, politicians, etc) or those at the lowest pay level (like care work, for example) it seems as if more and more people who would once have been gainfully employed will increasingly be competing for a shrinking pool of jobs with half-decent pay, and for those manual jobs. I see a rise in people with no job at all and a huge fall in people earning ‘professional’ salaries and following a reasonable career path. The knock-on would be falling private pension provision, falling savings, rising personal debt, and so on. Increasing hardship and wealth gap between those with and those without.

Do you think that a form of UBI would help to solve that problem?

• more people could work fewer hours each, so more people could have a job which often gives people a purpose in life
• hardship would be mitigated- no-one would be destitute or unable to feed themselves
• people might use their time on creative projects or things that are good for their health and well-being, if they have some breathing space around struggling to survive

How would we fund it. We already pay out a fortune in benefits for those on the lowest wages, disabled and pensions.

You’d be sticking everyone on say pension pay and pulling in even less tax as non workers multiply and people cut hours bringing them below the tax threshold in some cases.

You’d have to up taxes by a huge amount and it would make some people not bother to work at all because it wouldn’t feel worth it if there was a true affordable to live basic wage.

In order to provide a level of income that could be lived on the taxes of those in work would be astronomical. It sits with wealth taxes and taxing Amazon etc as ideas that are deeply stupid but immensely popular, rolled out by desperate politicians every now and again keen to pick up votes from the feeble minded.

YANBU. Everyone who doesn't understand how it will work, and how it will benefit society, should read The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists.

Who’s going to fund that, if less people are working and contributing via tax?

I remember trying to debate this at uni circa 2015 and the lecturer being very anti it because Elon Musk suggested it... That appeared to be the main reason at least!

It's meant to be generated by cost savings from using AI - but we can already see the job cuts and savings are going into the pockets of the wealthy, so that won't happen.

This, there's just not enough of the 'greater good, happy to pay out 110% of my wages in tax to fund others' people....

I imagine it would have to be funded from higher taxes on companies that would be making much higher profits because they are paying much less out in salaries, due to AI.

You would still need to pay extra benefits to some people.

We are almost bankrupt as a country. We don’t even have gold to fall back on. We can’t afford our pensions and benefits bill now.
If the countries who own massive amounts of our Gilts suddenly want their money back, we are fucked.

We don’t own our own country, it’s owned by Qatar/ China/ USA, the French own our power networks.
It’s a massive Ponzi scheme.

I don’t disagree. However AI has the potential to be a massive scourge on society.
work provides fulfilment, a reason to get up in the morning.
if we replace too many jobs with AI you create a society which will be ‘lost’ disenfranchised and depressed. Mental health issues will be even higher through that roof

Well this is one of the downfalls of a true UBI. Everyone gets the same regardless of need.

I think you could only fund this if we suddenly discover a huge mine of oil or gold under the peak district or something. Otherwise there's not a chance. There's no way you could just fund this internally via taxation of the workers themselves. It could only come from some huge, reliable exports

Tax the ultra-wealthy 0.01%. It’s not easy but it’s going to have to be figured out. There’s no other way now.

I think the idea was that most jobs that aren't physical (carer's, builders etc) will be obsolete in 20yrs time, so there should be profit from not having to pay wages floating about.

It's hard enough to get tax out of the super rich as it is so I have no idea how they think they'll suddenly cough up. People in higher tax bracket now would presumably be on the same wage as others? It's like an enforced form of communism IMO, but there we go.

Yes, & the income it provides will be cut off at the slightest sign of dissent.

It will be a way for the 1% to control the citizenry & prevent them from rising up to protest against increasingly obscene inequality.

Anyone who seriously thinks UBI will be benevolent must have been asleep for the past decade.

They'd just leave. I would (if I were that rich). I wouldn't want millions taxed from me to pay for able bodied people not to work.

Also you'd think it would rule out luxury items as most wouldn't be able to afford it if we all had the same amount. It would effectively eat itself.

😭😭 I think its wishful thinking girl sorry x

PLEASE read the Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists which will hopefully disabuse you of this notion that work provides fulfilment to the extent that it is essential. Of course there are jobs to be done, and with a better system in place, we can share them out and people could work one or two days as they see fit, if they want to, then spend the rest of their time on earth finding fulfilment from activities, hobbies art, travel, friends, leisure, creative pursuits, music, sport.

My mental issues would vanish if I didn't have to worry about financing the roof over my and my children's heads.

Women could have freedom from relationships they are financially trapped in.

It would be liberating.

They have done a number on you if you believe that we need work to be fulfilled - who taught you that, and why?! Think critically.

Where in the world do you think doesn't use AI out of interest? This is a global suggestion not just UK.

That's easily overcome. BASIC income for all, EXTRA for those who have added requirements.

Anyway there's plenty of medium salary jobs that can't be replaced by AI, like doctors, teachers, nurses.

It's only people who don't know much about AI that think it's omnipotent. It's not. It's daft. It can't even create a basic science GCSE worksheet without making mistakes.

I like this - strongly believe we've gone down a very masculine economic path for too long and lost community and humanity along the way as a result. Would much rather pay jobs on what value they hold in a community than how much £ they make for a shareholder somewhere.

OK. Well there'll be one (or many more than one) country that chooses not to do this daft plan, and all the rich people will go there.