Do people really think PIP claimants are fraudsters?!

[Greedybilly]

As someone with a chronic illness in the middle of claiming PIP I think it's important to point out it's very stressful to go through the process and actually get the benefit.
To those who were inferring it's an easy blag - I would say yes there will always be a few scammers who claim fraudulently ( though god knows how tbh?) the majority have to struggle for years/go through appeals/give up.
Just saying this for balance as I feel MN is turning slghtly into the Daily Fail.

So we have no idea of the figures, yet you still get to speculate they’re incorrect because it suits your narrative? 🤔

Because mental health problems can be incredibly debilitating. My friend's son tried to commit suicide. He is incredibly unwell. He was in hospital for ages. He gets PIP.

You don't get PIP simply for a bit of anxiety treated with pills from the GP and counselling.

Most disabled people either become disabled in adult life after working full time for years so already own their own home or they have never been able to live independently so still live with parents or supported living/ care homes.

The forms were absolutely dreadful to do, even with lots of help because my son was in hospital at the time but once they were done and all the evidence was collected, it was otherwise a straight forward process including him being awarded high rate care/mobility until he's 16 when he was 8 at the time.

I can speculate. We all can. I'm sure you have your own opinion too. The poster I responded to suggested that the concept that thousands of people were defrauding the system was 'factually incorrect'. This goes beyond speculation and strays into different territory which at best could be described as false certainty and at worst deliberately misleading.

Ok. I dont go to the hairdressers or get my nails done, but I have been on holiday this year, I buy books to read etc. They come out of the money I receive into my account each month, some of it is PIP, some CB, some wages... so am I allowed to go on holiday or because I can 'afford' I shouldn't get the benefits?

No, disabled people are statistically less likely to own their own home than the general population. They are also more likely to claim housing benefit.

It's not easy to get. To quote my GP "PIP is incredibly hard to get so if you are awarded, it shows you really deserve it."

I own my home have never claimed housing benefit just like many disabled people Speaking of which I have to go as my break has ended and some of us have jobs

I used some of my son's DLA for us to go on holiday because he needs adapted accommodation. Before he was disabled, holidays were cheaper because we didn't need to pay more for adapted accommodation and other things such as renting a beach wheelchair.

Is that good use of DLA I wonder? Or should my son just sit at home because he's disabled now?

That's the million dollar question and one we must answer as a society. Should PIP be means tested? Are people happy for comparatively wealthy people to claim PIP and spend the money on luxuries? The idea of means testing has been banded around for while and I imagine it might ultimately be something that comes up in the next election.

according to this thread, the disabled must sit at home, live like paupers, be filthy, in rags and give back every penny they don't spend on only the essentials every month.

Tell me what YOU think.

So? Does that make you morally superior to those that are disabled and have never been able to work? It also doesn't disprove the actual facts I posted about disabled people relying more heavily on Housing benefit than the general population. You were super happy to see them moved from their support networks and local area so they could live somewhere cheaper... Anyone could think that you only cared about the benefits that directly impacted you. I'm sure that isn't the case though.

I think many more benefits should be means tested in this country and that includes PIP, bus passes for pensioners and the WFA. I think we are in a crisis and whilst I wish all of these things weren't means tested, I would rather they were than we make cuts to other areas and services that would lead to people being impacted more severely.

The DWP doesn't consider anxiety that is treated by a GP and/or a counsellor to be serious enough to warrant any points. ((You need a certain number of points to be awarded PIP).

Please quote any post that suggested this. The hyperbole is so tiring. Someone suggesting that nail appointments are a luxury isn't the same as someone thinking disabled people should be filthy and in rags. I mean seriously? It is almost a form of extremism. Any divergence away from people being able to spend state money on exactly what they want and you get accused of wanting disabled people to be paupers. Fall in line with your ideology or be called horrible names and be accused of terrible things that nobody has even alluded to.

Mine was 3 hours.

So, what would be your cut off for receiving PIP.

Not really. There are lots of people between those scenarios. Many become disabled as adults and are still renting.

I would want to look at the best available evidence before even suggesting something like that. Same goes with any other thresholds for means testing.

I know a person who gets 2 points for social anxiety meeting people. She has another disability she gets other points for but those 2 points for social anxiety means she gets 9 points overall without the 2 points she would not get anything for just arthritis. I think it depends on who you get assessing you as a lot of it is subjective.

Means testing PIP is basically means testing someone disability.
Means testing is also done as a household.
I know a few disabled women who can only claim PIP and nothing else because of the salary or savings of their husbands. They would lose their PIP and be totally financially dependant on someone else.
It would also discourage couples from living together. UC is already means tested and I would lose that if I lived with my boyfriend.

That’s probably the question about ‘engaging with other people face to face’. 2 points would be ‘needs prompting to engage with other people’ so I don’t think that means anxiety. I get 4 points on that one because I am autistic and that is for ‘need social support to be able to engage with other people’ . I can’t understand body Language, facial expressions, inferences etc so misunderstood a lot of stuff and get a lot of bullying. You can get 8 points for ‘overwhelming psychological distress’ which sounds like it could be very severe anxiety.

I have anxiety, which I thought was pretty but throughout my PIP report the DWP wrote that they were not giving me any points for it because I had only been treated by the GP. The GP did actually refer to a psychiatrist but the referral was rejected.

Since then, I have learnt from various sources that the DWP only takes mental health problems seriously if you have been referred to specialist mental health services. Indeed various PPs have said the same in this thread.

Of course it isn't means testing someone's disability. That's like saying that means testing Child Benefit is means testing someone's child or means testing Housing Benefit is means testing someone's accommodation. We all need money to raise a child or to pay for our housing. It isn't questioning that need but more just looking at people's capacity to meet that financial needs themselves instead of assuming everybody needs to rely on the state.

Part of someone's capacity to meet a need is household income. This is how we means test virtually all benefits. It makes no sense to not do this for disability benefits when all the arguments you make regarding financial independence and disincentivising people living together apply equally to those benefits too.