Tom Phillips - any Kiwis (or others who know the story) want to discuss?

[Iwishiknewwhatiwasdoing]

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Such a nightmare of a situation. So insane how he managed to evade police for 4 years. The youngest may not even remember his previous life?

No, injunctions are perfectly common.

Super injunctions are rare.

Then why the weird comments trying to implement some injunction that the posters are not subject to and know no details of, trying to shut down discussion and police the thread? Plus a real lack of understanding of what the injunction is for and what it means in reality.

Plus a real lack of understanding of what the injunction is for and what it means in reality.

It doesn't matter whether there is an injunction or what it covers or where it applies. No-one should be sharing or repeating information or rumour or speculation relating to the children. Their right to privacy supersedes anyone's wish to discuss the case.

I'm glad to see that some of the worst comments here have been deleted.

I agree with you. I don't want to talk about the children, other than to wish them well and hope they are all able to recover and reintegrate themselves into normal life.

The aspect of the case that interests me is the the parents and siblings of Tom Phillips and his friends. What did these people know, how can they live with the decisions they have made and what will happen to them now. Because I really struggle to believe not one of them knew where he was or aided him in some ways. Wonder if they are worried now.

No one should be sharing details in your opinion for purposes of common decency and respect.

lying about a legal injunction to stop people doing something that is against common decency - but not illegal- is ridiculous

@AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta I'm sure there will be one or two in the area who are sweating every time there's a knock at the door, now that the police have got the various guns he had on his quad bike and back at the camp. They should hopefully be able to find out where he got those, and since he used one of them to try to blow the head off a policeman, the cops will surely not just let this one slide. Someone or other is going to be in a bit of trouble.

Can they trace who bought the guns, I’m assuming there is a register or something?

Do you think it was a number of people helping, family and friends, or just one or two people?

I saw a video of a helicopter flying over the area they were, I was shocked at how dense the area was, so many trees, I hadn’t expected it to look like that really.

"Can they trace who bought the guns, I’m assuming there is a register or something?"

Yes there is a serial number on rifles and shotguns and this plus a description of the weapon is on the owner's firearms licence, assuming things are the same in NZ as they are here, which I would think is the case.

Oh that would be pretty damning then. Particularly if as @IllBeLookingAtTheMoon said they are able to trace whose gun he used to shoot the policeman. Wonder if they'll try and claim he stole it or something. Bet theres a few defence stories being concocted right now.

As I understand it he shot at the second police officer who attended the scene as well.

It seems incredibly likely that he had help given he has a motorbike, quad bikes, the fuel to run them, gas canisters, multiple guns and ammunition and his youngest child was asthmatic and needed medication. He also had torches, batteries for them and clothing. Whilst he will have stolen some of these things, the likelihood is that some in the local community were paying him for work.

From what I read, which obviously could then link in with any rumours currently doing the rounds, it’s understood that those who were supporting him had stopped and that was why he had made a number of more recent break ins and there had been more sightings. He is also understood to have had other campsites and it’s possible each had supplies left there.

Thinking more about the first disappearance:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300429541/marokopas-vanishing-dad-not-concerned-about-police-charges-brother-says

The ute was found below the tideline. Phillips wasn't stupid enough to not know, or mad enough to not care, about tide tables. They were gone for three weeks so it wasn't a spur of the moment disappearance. I suspect the positioning of the ute- with child seats in the back - was deliberate to attract attention, panic and a search. Serving three purposes- a fuck you to Cat and the infliction of maximum psychological distress on her believing her children were probably drowned; a fuck you to the police and the family courts in a " I'll do whatever I want with my kids" kind of way, and a practice run for the real thing, living in the bush whilst teaching the children to evade an air land and sea search. What a psycho.

I would think he only had help from a very small number of people over the past few years. He would have known that every man, woman and child in Marokopa capable of walking or crawling would have been out searched for and worrying about missing possibly injured or drowned children that first time. Some of the locals mightn't be the biggest fans of the police, DOC, etc but I expect most of them have respect for search and rescue crews and each other. Nobody likes being taken for a fool by somebody who clearly doesn't give a shit.

Tom's loss of support from his core helpers might have been due to external pressure and threats from police, or concern about the long term future of the children, or something as simple as a core helper falling ill or moving away. But equally...maybe he was such an arrogant selfish narc/psycho personality type that he inevitably fell out with his helpers if he took them for granted.

https://slate.com/life/2024/04/missing-family-kids-tom-phillips-new-zealand-true-crime.html

Article about the first disappearance. There was a ban on whitebaiting (which is like religion to small coastal kiwi communities) during the peak season , to aid the search.

That article is interesting, especially about cultural attitudes - the Man Alone thing is definitely strong in the NZ psyche.

One of the links in that article leads to this one:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/300420778/from-joy-to-frustration-over-marokopas-lostthenfound-family

The uncle's comment is an interesting one. He knew his nephew was a proper wrong 'un, and broke ranks to say so.

He would have had loads of help, even if it was from a small number of people. Getting enough calories for 4 people is hard. Every season of that last man standing survival show, Alone, several contestants get pulled after a few weeks for losing a dangerous amount of weight. The record winning timespan was 100 days. And that's one survivalist with no dependents, not trying to evade detection. Hunting deer is hard enough in the more open country here (DH has a licence to shoot deer and permission over a few thousand acres of wood, hill and bog) let alone the thick vegetation in NZ north island bush. Sea fishing is the best method of survival - a lot of Māori were coastal dwelljng communities historically- but probably too exposed to detection to be a mainstay for Phillips.

The temperature isn't terribly extreme in the north island of NZ, compared to here, but the west is WET. I live in the rainy north west of Ireland. It's pissy and miserable a lot of the time and it's hard to get clothes dry in the winter unless you have a decent sized well ventilated space to hang them. Firewood has to be cut and seasoned in a dry shed with a bit of a breeze going through it. DH and the children spent a good chunk of today splitting and stacking timber in one of the big sheds while the rain pissed down outside, and they had a hydraulic log splitter on the back of a big tractor. You can do it with a chainsaw but that takes more time and effort and a lot of petrol and oil and some chain sharpening tools and preferably a well lit workbench with a vice to hold the blade to be sharpened. You can do it with a splitting axe and a handsaw, but that's hard work and increases your calorie requirement. Sometimes we do , for a bit of exercise, and usually I go and check the sheep on foot instead of on the quad for the fresh air and exercise. And then we go back into the nice warm well lit dry house and have a hot meal of some home grown but mostly supermarket bought food, then a hot shower and a warm bed.

Practically every aspect of life, if you're going proper bush, is a relentless search for calories and warmth balanced against energy expenditure, and in winter, a race against the limited daylight hours and weather. It's not much fun, and Phillips wasn't even going hardcore full on Crocodile Dundee.

I looked up the average rainfall in Marokopa. It's about 20% more than my local town. Which is fecking wet.

The police don’t care about the media storm - the suggestion that a baby was born between this man and child is absolutely horrifying and disgusting. Whoever started the rumour should be sued for defamation- this harms the young child involved and this is not acceptable

You should be sued for child endangerment and defamation about a young girl….your comment about her having a baby is vile and despicable.

No we don’t- sit down and stfu

the suggestion that ..... is absolutely horrifying and disgusting.

So why repeat it?

Yes NZ does now have a gun register as a consequence after the Christchurch mosque shootings in 2019. It wasn't fully implemented until 2023 during the period Tom was missing. Unfortunately even with the relatively new registration rules, guns that existed before 2023 may have still not been registered.
Also guns are still being illegally imported into NZ for criminal purposes and have been caught by border security and police on many occasions, or the serial numbers have been sawn off. There is no guarantee that Tom's guns can be traced, it depends when and how he got them in the first place. Hopefully they can be traced, the police are working on that now

Leo Molloy in the Grace Millian in Auckland case breached a court name suppression order not an injunction. The defendant found guilty in this murder case had name suppression granted even though guilty (he no longer does). Leo Molloy a well known personality in Auckland publically released the name knowing it was clearly in breach of the suppression order. Other victim support groups sometimes publish the names of guilty defendants that still receive name suppression even after they have been found guilty and they do get in trouble for this.

It's a controversial "name suppression" after being found guilty topic in NZ. Victim and fair justice advocate groups feel name suppression are awarded too freely by the courts after the person has been found guilty.

In this situation it is not about "name suppression" as the police have involved the public and requested their help through the whole period including Tom's name and the childrens and many other details.

99% of people on this thread have deep empathy for the children and the children's mother and whanau (family) and wish them the best recovery possible. The concerns have been about the children, the mother and how this situation has been allowed to have occured.

The posts that weren't have been deleted my mumsnet

Unfortunately in Tom's case is it is "all about the children" If we discuss any details or thoughts about his behaviour and the failings in our system that enabled his behaviour was and how it lasted so long before the children were rescued unfortunately it will involve the children as they are central to the case. We can't discuss one without the other.

Are we not to discuss the case at all? Just have a blanket ban like nothing happened here?

I think the thread name is inappropriate now. Can we rename it to just the Tom Phillips child abuse case or something similar? I don't know how to do that as im new to mumsnet, maybe one of the other savvy members can set one up and tell us how to redirect our following to a new name thread.
I think we all agree even if there is a possible baby it may not be the daughters, he may have had a girlfriend. It will all come out in the end.

For the sake of preventing a possible future situation ever occurring again to another family, Tom Phillips behaviour should not be hidden from the public.

The NZ prime minister has said he would like an inquiry into how this situation was allowed to occur and what can we do better e.g government agency's and possible legislation changes.

Having a new name thread will allow us to communicate regarding the case without mentioning the possibility the daughter may have been the mother.

Can someone help set up a new thread topic and let us know the name, a name without the word baby?

Thread title doesn't mention a baby?

Your right it doesn't, sorry I thought it did because of some of the comments

OMG reading this article now in hindsight sends chills. His whole family particularly the uncle have a lot of explaining to do now! What about the creepy friend of Tom's who Tom used his ute for to drive to Bunnings (hardware shop) in Hamilton (quite a distance away) and didn't report it missing until after the mother reporting seeing Tom at bunnings to the police and then he tried to chase the vehicle but later threatened a private detective to stay away. What was he trying to hide? Im sure the police are looking more closely into it now. Possibly a cover up while helping him I don't know but can guess? these are scary people, im actually scared to even write my thoughts

Hopefully now the scary people are becoming a bit scared for their own liberty and freedom, something they happily co-conspired to deprive those children of. Wonder if they'll be any plea deals being made in the near future.

But he was hero living off the land, trapping wild Jack Daniels with his shotgun and destroying tins of G&T with his own bare hands.

Re: whoever helped him to keep his kids in that isolation and squalor-- the arrogance, entitlement and contempt for the law of some rural Kiwis has to be seen to be believed. "High off the smell of their own farts" comes to mind.