Emeshment in Teenage Relationships

[GinSang]

I've changed my name for this as I'm sure my DC know my usual username!

Maybe emeshment (in the title) isn't the right word but I'm not sure what is.

I have two DDs - 20 and 18 - and the level involvement/emeshment that seems to occur in teenage relationships really concerns me.

Dd2 has been with her boyfriend about 9 months. He has her bank card on his googlepay, and she has his. They both use them and see their money as "our money". They both have access to all of each others social media accounts (and check them regularly and often take screenshots) and have each others phone PIN. She often gives him her key to our house to let himself in. I've objected and she says I'm weird - she also often has his key to his (parents) house and apparently they don't mind (though maybe they don't know).

My older DD was the same in her relationships (she's currently single) and all their friends are exactly the same. When I voice concerns about giving a boyfriend of a couple of months access to your bank account/social media and having access to theirs, they all (their friends included) tell me I'm strange and old-fashioned and that if a boyfriend didn't want this kind of access or give them this kind of access then they would question his commitment and leave him. They see this as some sort of feminist standpoint.

It also seems to be commonplace to not "allow" opposite sex friendships. My DD has a "good" male friend who every time he gets a new girlfriend blocks my DD on all social media. My dd gets slightly upset each time but it seems to be accepted. It happens to all their friends as well, and when the girls get a new boyfriend they all go through his social media - which of course they have access to - and block all female friends. When they split up, female friends get added back. When I've spoken to my DDs and their friends about my concerns about this they just say times have changed and its a matter of respect (ie not allowing a girlfriend to block female friends is seen as disrespectful)

My best lives at the opposite side of the country and has DDs the same age. Its the same there too so not an odd local thing (though she didn't know it was until I talked to her about it and she asked probing questions - when we first spoke about it she believed nothing like this happened with her DDs and their friends).

Am I being unreasonable to find this level of involvement/emeshment scary?

This sounds very worrying and unhealthy.

This is pretty terrifying- but to add another POV, I have a 19 and 21 year old and while my 19 year old in particular seems to launch from one intense relationship to another, this is not a level of intensity I’ve seen from either her or dd1. I’m also pretty certain that it’s not common among their friends either. We talk about everything and are very close and I’m pretty certain my ears would prick up if I caught on to anything like this happening through them or their peers. I’ll have a chat with them later, when they’re up. But I don’t think this is as common as what your DDs are making out, certainly not in other circles anyway.

YANBU to find it scary.

I have similarly aged kids (give or take a year) who are both in or have been in relationships of over a year, and I don't recognise a lot of what you are saying.

They follow each others' location on snapchat or similar, and do have house keys (the older has his own place so his decision, the younger with my permission after nearly 2 years together because he gets in really late sometimes and I didn't want to be disturbed if she arrived first!).

Sharing finances and passwords - no friends of the opposite sex - no way!

😳 this is not my experience of teenage relationships at all. I’d be seriously worried at some of this!

I was surprised its as common as it is.

Oldest DD is at uni. It's the same for all her friends at uni. Every single one of the 8 girls who share a flat - real mix of backgrounds and geographies. Same with her friends from home.

Younger DD works. Mine is the house her friends all hang out in. It is true for all her friendship group. I chat about this regularly with them and raise my concerns gently and nicely. They all very politely tell me I'm being old-fashioned and this is the norm now.

My best friend lives 5 hours drive from me. When I first spoke about this with her she was adamant this was not the norm among her DDs friends. Then she asked them directly and it is.

Same with my work colleague who has 16 year old DD. They live in a different part of the same city as us and no crossover of friendships with my DDs. In fact none of them have ever met or have even heard of each other.

My conversations about this are mainly with DD2's friends but its definitely more commonplace than I think many people my age realise. When I've asked DDs friends if their parents are aware they have all said they've never directly discussed most of it with them so they don't know. This applied to both DDs friends from home, and DD1s friends from uni. They all seemed to see it as so obviously nornal/commonplace as to not warrant a conversation. They were surprised I was shocked by it.

YANBU. My DS and his girlfriend are both 22 and have been together for just over 4 years.

whilst I recognise some of what you say (and am not a fan of it), such as same-sex friends being completely unacceptable and exes getting blocked, they have a shared Uber account but certainly don't have access to each others' bank accounts or social media. (DS and I are very close and i can confidently say he would be horrified at the idea!)

Until recently when he changed jobs he was staying with her and her parents during the week as he worked in their town and doesn't drive, so he has a key to their house but this was really for convenience at the time and she doesn't have a key to ours. Also he is very close to her parents, they all go on holidays together etc, it doesn't seem to be a standard thing with their age group.

I would find the bank account situation very concerning even now after 4 years together, but I shall ask him later if this is something that happens with any of his friends!

😳 it's like they're all justifying being in abusive relationships and being abusive themselves. Bloody hell I'm glad I'm not young nowadays

They also have each others locations on their phones - but then friends also have each others locations.

Many - but not all of them - sleep overnight on the phone to each other.

It really worries me.

Nope, this hasn't happened with my dd's.

I have teens and i’d find that very odd. My son has been with his GF 3yrs now and they do not share money and have access to each other’s accounts. This is way too much and i’d have the same concerns. Especially if some new boyfriend was spending some of my DD’s childhood savings that my family and I have added to for years. Not a chance.

I wouldn't be happy about this either.

I have teens and don't recognise this at all. There is no way on earth that eldest DS would give access to his finances to anyone thankfully.

I have similar aged adult children and do not recognise this behaviour which sounds quite controlling.

That does sound bizarre and not anything like a relationship I would like to be in. I'm 22 and married, but I still have my own bank account (plus our joint account) and my dh doesn't have my social media logins or phone PIN.

It does sound very concerning.

I have teens too. Their relationships seem intense and all consuming even at times. There is no way I would be happy with shared accesss to bank accounts and PIN numbers etc.

Op I think you need to discuss boundaries with them, and safe limits. Retaining some independence snd identity. They are enmeshed, and I would be encouraging more time with frievds and hobbies, some balance. Although you will be limited as to what you can do at this age you will have a limited audience.

If you are still fiunding them, then I would be making this my own red line, and insidr the bank accounts are to be kept separate, and private. It is leaving them wide open to financial abuse otherwise.

No one would have my door keys under any circumstabces, and make it clear that this is never going to happen.

You will have to walk a tightrope here or you risk alienating them. Choose which aspects worry you the most, and focus on them for now. You won’t be able to change everything under night, but you can slowly help them see what an healthy relationship looks like. What does a codependent relationship look like etc. Show them how to have boundaries by modelling them by example. Yes, I think you are right to be worried in summary.

Gentle reminder that OP, her friend and her colleague were also sure their kids wouldn't/didn't do this ...

I hope some of them at least have the nous to keep only 'spending' money in the accounts they share! As for the vetting & blocking of opposite-sex friends: I think it's awful and unhealthy, but sounds like it's relatively harmless. What happens when they bump into one of their old friends, and how do they cope with opposite-sex colleagues?

Thank you.

My amateur informal research has found at least 50 young people that do this, currently living in 4 completely different geographical areas, and from 10 completely different areas across the UK. Of the 3 sets of parents who (now) know about it - all 3 (me, my friend, my colleague) would have previously bet the house that their child(ren) would never do this. Of all the young people I've asked (maybe 10 or 12) or my DD1 has asked (maybe a similar number) none of themselves parents were fully aware. Even now I doubt I'm aware of everything as they don't seem to consider lots of things worth mentioning.

My dd's male friend blanks her if out with his girlfriend. If out by himself he will chat but he is always worried she'd find out. The consensus among the girls us that he's skating on thin ice by stopping to chat.

I actually found out about this aspect because I (alone) walked past him at a bus stop with his girlfriend and stopped to say hello, how are you. I knew he hadn't been round to our house for a while and just assumed he was busy with his girlfriend. When I chatted with him (for about a minute) he looked like a rabbit caught in headlights.

Boundaries have beeb discussed a LOT. They all - friends included - just think I'm well meaning but out of touch. What I say is taken with a pinch of salt. I'm told these things are normal in their age group and not controlling. I disagree. Maybe they are normal but ti me they are still controlling and it is worrying that controlling is the norm.

My friend and my colleague have had similar conversations with similar results.

I fear you've left it a bit late.. Isn't not sharing your pin/card details a conversation that happens when they get their first bank card? Isn't not giving out the key a very obvious conversation when they're 12 and get their first key?

I was taught better than this! This is NOT normal.

Are you implying that the people replying don't speak to their own kids?

I could offer another gentle reminder... the OP's DD's are telling her all their friends do it but she doesn't know that's the case for sure.

"All my friends are doing it/all my friends' parents let them" was my kids' stock standard response to anything I didn't like, for years and years!

All they have to do is scan it into the phone. It probably doesn't feel like 'sharing your PIN' as the owner of the phone never touches the card or knows the PIN.

Not sharing your PIN/bank details was discussed from long before they had their first bank account and reinforced regularly. They still see this as valid and would never (I think!) share such details with a friend/acquaintance. However they see this as different and see sharing EVERYTHING as being normal as part of a relationship.

I have also always discussed boundaries and controlling relationships with them. But none them - my DDs, their friends, my friend/colleagues DCs - see this as controlling behaviour because everyone actively chooses to do it.

Thinking about it, the banks should make it so that only account holder's biometrics can authorise a payment. The kids have found a loophole!

I have teens with eldest at university. Location sharing yes. They all turn it on. My children look to see where I am as well!

no opposite sex friends is straight out of the tradwife/manosphere playbook. I’d not be having that.

the social media bit is supposed to be proof of trust but I don’t like it. I think privacy is normal. And sharing bank accounts and cards should be a hard line.

word of warning: some of the most enmeshed relationships I have seen were gay or lesbian. This isn’t just about straight men unfortunately.

I’ve similar aged DDs one of them dumped her last fella as he started veering down a controlling path and immediately she got the massive ick. The guy she is with now is chill as anything. I recognise none of what you are saying with them.

I think your DDs have a very strange understanding of relationships for that age group. I wonder is there a specific social media trend contributing to that. It is worrying.

No they aren't telling me that all their friends do it. I have spoken to at least ten of their friends about it and they have told me themselves they do it.

My friend has spoken to her two DDs and three of their friends about it. She heard it straight from the horses mouth that they did it

I don't think it's as black and white as " implying people don't speak to their own kids". I have good relationships with my kids where we speak openly. I didn't know these things were happening until I overheard bits of things and started asking specific questions. None of this had seemed significant enough to my DDs to mention. The same with my friend and colleague's DCs.

Two if my DD2s friends (sisters) have one of the most open relationships with their parents I've seen. They've never mentioned it to their parents as they didn't see it as significant