Emeshment in Teenage Relationships

[GinSang]

I've changed my name for this as I'm sure my DC know my usual username!

Maybe emeshment (in the title) isn't the right word but I'm not sure what is.

I have two DDs - 20 and 18 - and the level involvement/emeshment that seems to occur in teenage relationships really concerns me.

Dd2 has been with her boyfriend about 9 months. He has her bank card on his googlepay, and she has his. They both use them and see their money as "our money". They both have access to all of each others social media accounts (and check them regularly and often take screenshots) and have each others phone PIN. She often gives him her key to our house to let himself in. I've objected and she says I'm weird - she also often has his key to his (parents) house and apparently they don't mind (though maybe they don't know).

My older DD was the same in her relationships (she's currently single) and all their friends are exactly the same. When I voice concerns about giving a boyfriend of a couple of months access to your bank account/social media and having access to theirs, they all (their friends included) tell me I'm strange and old-fashioned and that if a boyfriend didn't want this kind of access or give them this kind of access then they would question his commitment and leave him. They see this as some sort of feminist standpoint.

It also seems to be commonplace to not "allow" opposite sex friendships. My DD has a "good" male friend who every time he gets a new girlfriend blocks my DD on all social media. My dd gets slightly upset each time but it seems to be accepted. It happens to all their friends as well, and when the girls get a new boyfriend they all go through his social media - which of course they have access to - and block all female friends. When they split up, female friends get added back. When I've spoken to my DDs and their friends about my concerns about this they just say times have changed and its a matter of respect (ie not allowing a girlfriend to block female friends is seen as disrespectful)

My best lives at the opposite side of the country and has DDs the same age. Its the same there too so not an odd local thing (though she didn't know it was until I talked to her about it and she asked probing questions - when we first spoke about it she believed nothing like this happened with her DDs and their friends).

Am I being unreasonable to find this level of involvement/emeshment scary?

My dd is a bit older. She's been with her boyfriend for 3 years. I've just read her the OP, and she was like "that's weird". None of her friends do what you've described. And as for the key thing, absolutely not!! They do share each other's locations and have a shared monzo account to pay for dates/trips though.

Yeah I also have very open relationships with my DDs aged 17 and 20 and I read out your post to them and they said it was batshit crazy and they don’t know anyone doing it. Other than the location sharing as a temporary thing when meeting up with friends. It is a trend for sure with your DDs but it is not everywhere.

This is as alien as can be to me. My DD would tell any bf to ‘do one’ if he even suggested such enmeshment.

This is really disturbing.

What leapt into my mind was the Stepford wives.

@GinSang. I hit the wrong button when I voted - fat fingers - so I’ve asked @MNHQto remove my vote asap.
Many apologies.
And I think the level of involvement & emeshment that you are seeing is very worrying.
You are NOT being unreasonable!

I don’t recognise the banking and keys as no boyfriends yet like that. The location tracking thing is rife amongst them all and the larger group use it in really twisted ways imo.

I feel technology is used in a really regressive and controlling way. They can’t be free cause they’re tracked/ judged/ and up against kids who do everything and curate their lives so carefully on social media. It’s sick (in the old fashioned meaning)

I've got 3 a bit beyond that stage and one at 15.

None of them share bank cards - I know this as two of them lost their phones in a car accident recently and learned the hard way about not keeping their actual cards 🙄 No shared social media (although one has no social media to share). The blocking exes thing is common though - one does it at the end of any relationship regardless of how it ends.

Mine don't share locations. They've always been the outliers on this with friends. DD2 has narcolepsy and will choose to share location with someone if she's travelling alone. She has however dumped four lads so far for insisting she must share with them all the time.

DS1 was dumped by a girl who called him a weirdo for not giving her a key to his flat after a month and asked what he was hiding.

My niece does share a bank card with her boyfriend and they have joint social media. My kids find it weird. My girls no longer talk to her about anything personal as she very often says that she won't ever promise to not share with her boyfriend. They also keep a tally of how often they spend with friends and each other to make sure they're always spending more time with each other. They'll cancel things if they've already had "too much" time with friends which I think is deeply unhealthy.

15 year old is going through a stage of thinking all of the girls in his year are ridiculous and too dramatic.

This all sounds really unhealthy. Great way to foster jealous paranoia and controlling relationships. Way outside my experience as my kids are proper adults now and granddaughters not yet dating ages. I wonder how things can get more normal again. I've been with my partner almost twenty years but we don't access each others phones,bank accounts or social media and don't know who each of us talks to all the time including people if the opposite sex.

I should add that in the case of my DDs friendship group and my friends DDs friendship group, this is very much led by the girls.

It's the girls who insist on no opposite sex friendships. I've only heard of one boyfriend trying to insist on this and he was quickly dumped and deemed weird and creepy for other reasons.

I know the social media accounts are mutually shared at the start of a relationship and both parties have each others logins as an option on their phone. It's almost ceremonial. However I've only known the girls access the partners social media daily. I'm not sure whether the boys are accessing it at all. But then I have daughters and hear their conversations with their friends. Maybe I just don't hear what the boys are up to.

And yes it's definitely also happening in same sex relationships.

In terms of not happening everywhere - I think it does. I'm not saying everyone everywhere or even the majority. But certainly at least a significant minority.

We live in a northern English city - me and my colleague in two completely different parts. My friend is in a small coastal southern town. DD1 shares a flat at uni with people from across the UK - London, Scotland, rural, urban. All are familiar with this tobsome extent or another.

One of my DDs competes at a sport at a regional level. A month or so ago we were at an event and with another young person who competes with my Daughter from an entirely different part of our region. Some of what I've said in this post came she said she would never do it but she's autistic and it feels icky (Her words) but she said all her friends from college do it.

So it's definitely fairly widespread

OP has it ever gone wrong? I can’t believe that this warm fuzzy money-sharing community hasn’t come tumbling down at some point, with a scorned ex deciding to treat themselves on the ex’s account to punish them for cheating/dumping them etc.

Wow, absolutely none of what you describe seems healthy, in fact quite the opposite! 🤯

I've heard about this from my DD too. She and her close friends call this "Andrew Tate vibes" They have a female friend from their group who has become isolated due to this behaviour. Boy involved is incredibly controlling, doesn't want her out with friends of either sex, is going to the same university as her this month etc. It can be happening in any social circle. We know both sets if parents and they seem oblivious to this dynamic. The boys parents definitely have no idea. DD has a fabulous male friend group and a long term boyfriend who are all horrified and disapproving of the controlling behaviour, they are all 18, so it definitely isn't the majority of young people. I'd say that all parents need to be alerted to this. Never assume it won't be happening to your young person or in their friend group.

Oh yes. Several occasions it hoes wrong. Up until recently its only been quite small amounts as moat of then weren't working full time. One girl bought herself a new item of clothing on exes googlepay after she caught him cheating.

Recently DD's boyfriend paid for a very large item using DDs googlepay without her knowing as she got paid a few days before him. Dd was really angry with him for about half an hour and then it was all OK apparently. He did pay her back a couple of days later but to me that wasn't the point.

My dd1 has her best friend from home's card on her googlepay and her best friend from uni's and they have hers. Those with boyfriends also have each others. Dd1 says this is just common sense in case someone's phone dies when they are all out together. She says it's the same as when we me and my friend travel together and have both boarding passes on both phones just in case one dies. I don't think it's the same at all. Anyway there have been times they've been out, a phone has died and because they're using two cards on one phone (and drinking) they become confused about which card is being used and have to sort it out in the morning

This level of enmeshment in any relationship - teenage or not - is highly dysfunctional! I don't yet have kids in this age bracket, but I shudder to think that this is what awaits them. Surely, young adults should develop their own personalities, expand their horizons, have some adventures, figure out who they are and what they stand for, rather than get into these kinds of intense relationships that exclude any individuation, and can only lead to dysfunctional co-dependencies and deprive them of a chance to develop a strong sense of self?!

Wow I didn’t know this was now the norm! I wouldn’t be happy about the sharing of bank details at all.

there’s not much you can do about them sharing their bank details or social media as they’re adults but you can definitely put your foot down about your dd giving keys to your house to her boyfriend. That’s really unacceptable.

my eldest is currently 13. I will begin drilling the importance of not sharing bank details now- he has just got Apple Pay on his phone. To be honest, I’ve said to him that he needs to keep bank details and passwords secrets but it’s never occurred to me to say don’t have your card on anyone else’s phone because I just thought it was obvious. But I will drill it in now if it’s becoming a thing. He also has his actual bank card in his phone case so if his phone did die, he has the physical card available.

it just seems a recipe for disaster to me

Thankfully, my daughter doesn't have a boyfriend yet. I'll add this to the 999 things she must be aware of before starting out 🤦🏾‍♀️.

I have teens - DS1 is 19yo and has had a girlfriend for 2.5 years now. They definitely do the location sharing thing and some of them do seem to have each other's social media logins (not just boyfriends / girlfriends - they also seem to share them with close friends). But they definitely don't share bank cards and they don't have keys to each other's houses. And they're "allowed" to have opposite sex friends on SM.

Been married 24 years, and still don't share this info with h, no need to.
What happens with these relationships break up, do they get new bank account numbers etc?
Spoke with my kidults and they all agreed the blocking and sharing details to that extent was weird. As #3 [26] said "It won't end well for any of them mum."
It sounds like a dangerous mentality to me.

I’m 22, I’ve been with DP since we were 16 and I don’t recognise anything in your post for me or my friends. We still both have opposite sex friends. We now have a joint bank account for rent, bills etc after having DD and moving in together, but this wasn’t until we were 20 and we both still have separate accounts for savings, fun money etc. DP doesn’t have access to my phone or social media.

@GinSang Just to let you know I’ve been able to change my vote….

That is not the norm among my children’s friendship groups. Maybe it’s because they are all ND and a lot of their friends are too, I don’t know. The sharing of money doesn’t happen, nor the not allowing friends of the opposite sex. Maybe the location tracking to a degree.

Just to clarify about the keys... only the people who live in my house have keys to the house on a permanent basis. I have keys that can't be recut without the keholder's consent (ie me) so that isn't going to change. However....

Dd often gives her boyfriend her key. This first came to my attention when DSis was sat in my lounge waiting for me to finish getting ready to go out, and Dd's boyfriend let himself in using a key. When I spoke to DD she said she'd seen him earlier in the day and he was going to be finished at work before she was so she gave him her key to let himself in to wait. I told her I wasn't comfortable with it and to get the key back. She said she would but thought I was being over the top about it.

Since then there have been numerous times she has "forgotten to get her key back off him" as apparently he has it in his pocket when they're out (she doesn't carry a handbag). For a while he would still use it to let himself in when she has forgotten to get it back off him until I made clear that even if it was in his possession I expected him to knock on the door. Now he doesn't use it, but they both think I'm being over the top about it.

I started dating my now Husband when I was 17 years old, and we have been together for 29 years….

We only share a mortgage (both names on house)
We don’t have a joint bank account- we just spread the bills between us to make it fair in terms of paying for things.
Social media, emails, accounts for shops and savings are all entirely separate.

To be honest we consider this the key to the success of our relationship, we have plenty of friends that argue over the monthly bank statements over spending on things like takeaway coffee, nights out (statements track where money is spent) the cost of hairdressing etc….

They don’t have surprise gifts…. they track spending online so rather than be surprised by a nice gift… they are ready to argue over how much it has cost!

We are both responsible, and don’t need parenting or supervision… so why have intrusion in your life?

Yeah I'm not sure why people are querying this - surely the whole point of controlling relationships is that one partner is the one doing the controlling, to an extent that's beyond what is objectively considered normal? Otherwise, as weird and overly intense as it sounds to me, I wouldn't say what OP is describing is controlling, if both males and females are choosing to do it and it's the norm within their social circle.

tbh it sounds like a natural progression in terms of sharing/over familiarity. Children share a lot more with their parents than they would have 20/30 years ago. Friends share things with each other (e.g. location tracking). Most people share information with complete strangers on a daily basis.

The no opposite sex friends thing is what I find most concerning.