Putting 2yo in front seat of car???

[dontcomeatme]

I've discussed this multiple times on MN but we're at the end of our tether right now.
My 2yo DS is severely travel sick. Has been pretty much since he was born, we could never drive for more than 40mins to an hour at max and he would projectile vomit. We had to forward face him at 2yo which we desperately didn't want to do but he was choking on his sick rear facing and being in the laid back position.
We're now at the point where even a 20-25 minute journey is making him sick. We are washing the car seat that often we have bought a spare to use while one is in the wash, and as soon as one is clean the other is dirty 😭 I sit in the back with him primed with sick bags but it makes him hysterical just to look at them so I feel like I'm making him worse!
We've been to the GP multiple times now but they just say its one of those things 🙄 I'm ringing on Monday and I want an emergency appointment with a different GP, this level of sickness isn't normal. It is projectile! Comes out of his mouth, nose, absolutely covers him. He goes grey and feels like sh*t for the rest of the day 😢
Do they prescribe anti sickness meds for kids or do we have to buy them? Most of the ones I've seen online are for 4yo plus and I'm hesitant to give him them.
I am seriously contemplating putting him in the front of the car, with the airbags off. Is that insane? AIBU to think this is the solution?!?! He's 28months, 99centile height and weight. We seriously don't know what else to do!
We've started walking and getting the bus everywhere just to prevent the sickness but this isn't sustainable, we missed a hospital appointment last week because the bus didn't come on time 🤦🏻‍♀️
Any suggestions at all? What worked for your DC? Can the doctors actually do anything ? Do you think front seat would help? It always helped me as a child but this was the 90s, my parents shoved me up the front without even a booster seat.
Any advice is appreciated 🙏

Would you need an exemption certificate if he’s in the front seat facing whichever way , as the law is quite clear that children under 3 should be in the back unless it is not possible for them to be in the back

I haven’t read the full thread but DS has been the same since about 18months. We turned him FF in the back at about 2 (it didn’t make much difference apart from we could see that he wasn’t choking) Then started using Kids Kalms since 4.
We recently moved DS 6 to the front seat FF and he’s been better but the thing that has made a huge difference is headphones (music NOT stories). Apparently it’s to do with the signal between ears and eyes. Yesterday he actually did a 45min journey in the back of the car with his headphones on (no kalms) and he wasn’t sick.

Not in the UK. The only part of the law which refers to this is the exception about carrying children without a car seat in an emergency.

Normally they are totally fine legally to be in the front, as long as they are in the appropriate child restraint for their age and size.

Rear facing seats are illegal to fit in front of an airbag, but if the airbag is disabled, then this doesn't matter.

There is no law that says children under 3 must be in the back.

There is an exception to car seats that children under 3 may travel in the back of taxi or minicab without a car seat if no seat is available.
Which is an exception thats there for practical reasons (that many on MN don't understand)

My sympathies op! I too have a travel sick child (although not quite to your extreme) but know how much stress it causes just trying to plan a journey!
My son was sick 30mins into a journey, but knew he felt ill earlier, which I hated the thought of.
We FF him in the front from 2 and it did help, even if it was to be able to stick a bucket under him!!
Acupressure bands did nothing. Small snack or no food was the same reaction.
Thankfully mist if our journeys are within 30mins, so avoided needing to take things further, we just dealt with it.
Now he's 4, he had tablets which so far, have worked well.
But an option we were looking at was travel sickness glasses. They have a rim of coloured water in the frame that is meant to equalize the eye-ear disruption. Might be worth a try?
Failing that, absolutely go back to the gp.
I would be pretty sure they should be able to precribe something. Remember there are huge variations in weight amongst children. My 4yr old is small (no more than 18kg), and medication is usually based on weight and use the age as average guidelines.

Joie Elevate R129 or Graco Eldura R129 is belt fitted and goes up to 21.5kg / 105cm on the harness, you can physically fit them into the harness longer, I am not sure if it's advisable to go over the height limit or not.

In fact, the Eldura manual and website explicitly says you can use it until the child's shoulders reach the highest position:

Website:

Your child can stay in harness booster mode as long as their shoulders comfortably fit when the harness is at its highest setting.

Manual:

DO not use the booster with the harness if the child’s shoulders are above the highest slots in the backrest or if the child’s weight exceeds 21.5kg.

The Joie manual says the same, but doesn't have the line on the website saying it's OK to use as long as shoulders fit.

If you use one of these seats, the belt path is fairly shallow, meaning there is a danger of what's called forward anchorage on the front seat in some cars, if you move the seat back too far. If the seatbelt anchorage points (where the two ends of the lap belt attach to the car) are physically further forward than the belt path in the car seat, the seat will be loose and it will be impossible to get it tight enough. If this happens, move the front seat forward just enough that the belt is anchoring the seat back and down firmly. You still want to have as much distance as possible from the dashboard. You can kneel into the seat to pull the belt tight, but you don't really need to because this seat has a belt lock off. So yes, push the child seat into the vehicle seat to get the belt nice and snug, but it's not friction fitted like some other seatbelt fit car seats, so there is no need to use your entire body weight. As long as all the slack if out of the belt, the seat itself doesn't move (that would be forward anchorage) and the lock off is tight, it's good. And then you want the harness as close to his shoulders as possible, if he is between two positions, choose the higher one. No higher than 2cm above the shoulders. When you strap him in, try to make sure that he sits upright with his bum to the back of the seat, and his shoulders resting on the backrest. If they lean forwards, they can sort of get stuck in a hunched over position with the belt pinning their shoulders away from the backrest, which means you'll have slack in the harness plus it will be uncomfortable for him.

Other than this some Peugeot cars have isofix + top tether in the front seat, maybe Citroen do as well?? It is a long shot but worth checking. If you have isofix + top tether, you could use Joie Bold or Joie i-Irvana Max, both of which are up to 25kg.

For seatbelt fit up to 25kg FF, Maxi Cosi Beryl is the best bet as said, although be aware the shoulder height is more restricted - it's about the same max height as Joie 360 Spin. It looks like it can still be purchased but I don't know how reputable the sites are that have it in stock. It fits using a base which separates from the seat itself, the base can be isofix or seatbelt fitted, and must be seatbelt fitted when the child is over 18kg.

If you are going to try RF, it doesn't make sense to have him in the front so in that case, I would remove the rear seat headrest, try to block view from side windows and give as clear a view out the rear windscreen as possible.

Thank you this might be the winner! Might try it in the middle at the back x

I came on to say if he is FF in the front you must keep the airbags ON (it’s only off for rear facing) - move the seat back as far as possible but otherwise airbags on. However I would normally defer to @BertieBottson matters of car seats and they have commented already and not said the above so… now I’m not sure. Maybe double check/consider this? Otherwise moving to the front in your situation makes complete sense.

Thank you, that's what I'm hoping the GP will suggest x

Good point I will have to query this x

Yeah he is 17.8kg at 2 so quite a big lad, which sometimes does actually help regarding meds! X

Op check out the joie Fortifi too it might fit the bill.
Although I'd bow to Berties knowledge of car seats.

I would definitely try the front. Although the back is safer in a crash, if he’s less likely to vomit in the front then for your situation he is safer as there are less driver distractions. As long as the seat is good quality and well fitted you are doing the best you can in the circumstances.

We have these and love them, but we have the i-spin first and loved it too.

Thank you! Me and the OH are going to go through them all later and see which one would be better for us. Really appreciate the advice x

I was always horribly sick in my parents Citroën, something to do with the suspension. All their other cars were no issues. Obviously a change of car isn't an option but maybe something to consider for the future.

@BertieBotts Just being curious. What do you do for a living?
I can't decide if you sell care seats or are in some sort of car seat safety training, with police or trading standards.

I'm a SAHM (3 DC) with ADHD that causes an unusually intense interest in certain topics. I like finding out the answers to questions, and so I found a sort of niche in this area, started keeping notes for my own use too, and have read quite a few of the studies. One of the main things that interests me is what to do/what makes a difference outside of the "ideal" scenario, e.g. it's easy enough to say in a crash test lab, a RF seat protects the dummy better than a FF one. Absolutely true, but what about the more unusual scenarios e.g. limited space to install the seat, a child with measurements outside the usual that the seats are designed for, additional needs etc. I also think it's too simplistic to say that people choose a "less safe" option, go against blanket recommendations or use car seats incorrectly etc because they "don't care" about DC safety or blame it on ignorance - I think it's actually very important to look at why people make decisions or behave in ways which go against expert recommendation and explore what would actually help them the most in their specific situation. I think that's important in all of life.

I got so into it that I did then decide to enter the industry, so decided I would try to go retail > brand rep/customer service > maybe somewhere in R&D, did a trial day at an ERF specialist retailer (which was fascinating) although ultimately did not get the job, basically because I didn't already have childcare in place. They said they liked me otherwise! Where I live (EU country) the nursery settling in process is prolonged over several weeks but nursery is cheap/subsidised. So I learned from this, got DS2 a place and then got a job at a chain baby store where I got a load more practical experience and did all their video training on the car seats/pushchairs I had access to at the time. Loved it, despite some stressful staff politics stuff, but had to stop work there on doctor's advice when pregnant during COVID pre vaccine, and then never went back, because by the time parental leave was up it was really clear DS2 had additional needs and needed my attention more than any money I could earn.

Then I was a mod on one of the FB groups for a while, which gave me a really interesting overview of the kinds of things people want to know about car seats or problems they typically encounter, and it was fun to hear some of the "behind the scenes" stuff from the admin (who were all retailers) but the politics did my head in, and I felt I was being asked to withhold information about FF seats because the admins didn't want to be seen to promote FF/suggest it is safe, as they felt strongly that only RF is safe (I disagree, although I agree it is safer).

Not sure what my future plan is now, I am unlikely to go into the car seat industry after all - it still interests me, but the locations aren't hugely convenient and DS2 needs me closer to home, so my knowledge is getting more out of date unfortunately. I am looking at training as an OT, since I discovered that an OT's job is really to look at those niche cases where people can't do the "norm" or the "recommended thing" so you look at what helps them personally, just on a much more varied scale than car seats! I do try to keep up with newer models, but the only practical experience I get with them these days is going into the shop and playing with the display models, so my knowledge is more in the theoretical area or I can point people to resources where someone who has actually handled the seat more than me can be consulted or is giving their opinion.

I have never called myself an expert although others do. I don't see it that way. I do try to refer back to sources without making my posts too wordy - don't always manage this as you can see!

We got a prescription for son when he was tiny. Probably less than 1 year old. It was some kind of antihistamine I think.

He was so badly travel sick. Couldn’t travel the 3 miles to the nearest town. Absolutely awful.

We did keep him rear facing and it slowly got better over time.

I gave him kwells well before 4 years. Maybe close to 3. My aunt is a pharmacist and looked up the weight recommendations.

So I would demand GP give you something. They definitely can!!

My dd has similar problem. Stopping the car every 15 mins and getting out for fresh air, keeping the windows open, forward facing carseat and no food an hour before travel have worked for us. NO DEVICES is also v important.

@BertieBotts thanks for your detailed answer. For long enough I'd assumed you'd worked with carseats.
That said i do find it fascinating how many people will argue for RF when that's not always the best answer and the things people believe are UK law which just aren't.

I had a succession of coupes and two seater soft tops when my DC's were little, necessitating sitting in the front seat with air bags off. They were both RF and FF facing depending on age.

Talk to pharmacist about travel sickness pills

Long term, you should consider moving house to somewhere more central where you don't need a car. I live in London and I can count on one hand the number of times my baby has been in a car (he's 1). Realistically this child will be car sick for a long time, you can't subject him to car rides and medication for the next 15 years.

Aye thats an easy answer. For many who don't live in cities the car is the only option. The Op also mentioned a 7 seater car, that indicates other children who would need to move schools and stuff too.

Op is he rear facing at the moment?