AIBU to think Cromwell

[Justanotherdramalama]

If you were visiting a castle in England and the name Cromwell was mentioned numerous times. Who would automatically come to mind?

Oliver was his sister’s great grandson I think? Or great great?

Oliver, and as an Irish person the name makes me shudder a little each time.

I probably would ask for clarification though as Thomas is very well known too.

I think both would pop in my head pretty similar time. In a castle probably Oliver but would depend if it was a Tudor linked castle or not.

Not being familiar with Thomas Cromwell doesn’t make me not British. That’s a strange bit of gatekeeping. Britain has centuries of history, and no one person is obliged to carry around the same trivia set as you.

Oliver. I haven’t seen the Wolf Hall.

I’m hoping this is said with heavy irony.

Thomas ! But time another Wolf hall/tutor history fan

Both, mainly due to the fact I went to school where the Sixth Form centre is a country house formerly owned by the Cromwell family (ex-nunnery given to Thomas after the dissolution).

oliver

Oliver

Oliver

Pre Wolf Hall, Oliver. Now it's a bit more of a grey area.

Though still Oliver probably.

Oliver.

Tudor is Thomas, civil war is Oliver. For a castle, I would think Oliver. Religious monasteries or Tudor palace then Thomas.

Thomas has completely displaced Oliver in my head, even though the castles reference should put him first.

I went past Wolf Hall last summer. I was a bit over-excited 😄I have ancestors who lived locally and would presumably have seen Henry VIII and his entourage when they visited.

Yes, this. Oliver for castles, Thomas for monasteries.

Thomas, because I don't really associate Oliver and the Parliamentarians with castles.

You really can't describe Thomas Cromwell as trivia. Even if you haven't read or watched Wolf Hall, if you know anything about Henry VIII you should know about Thomas Cromwell.

My DD has a History degree and I have a keen non academic interest in history. We had quite a confusing debate about Cromwell a few months ago. Only a few days later did I realise she was talking about Oliver and I was talking about Thomas 😂

But that’s one of the major things he is associated with! The civil war and the destruction of royalist castles around the country! My home town’s castle lies ruined because of it.

Oliver, but only because of where I live as he is a part of the history, so more ingrained.

The reason I asked, was because last week I visited Skipton Castle and got into conversation with a lovely staff member who referenced Cromwell and some information boards in rooms referenced Cromwell. I automatically when I hear the name Cromwell think of Thomas and I was introduced to see if anyone else automatically thought the same as me. I probably do this because Tudor history is fascinating to me and I love Wolf Hall/the Tudors and Hilery Mantles books.

As a side, when talking to the staff member I got my history muddled and said oh are you talking about Cromwell in Henry the 8ths time and they said no Cromwell wasn't in those years he was much later. Reflecting on our conversation I don't think they had heard of Thomas Cromwell.

• They used as I don't want to out the lovely staff member.

My first thought would be to ask Oliver or Thomas?

Interesting - I would think Oliver, but just because I'd assume that it was more likely to be associated with the Civil War and slighting. Think Thomas Cromwell owned houses rather than castles?

Cromwell was always Oliver until very recently unless you had a specific context that would mean Thomas.

When people thought about Henry VIII and his ministers they would usually think first about Wolsey, maybe Cranmer. Cromwell was very overlooked.

I find it fascinating that Wolf Hall has shifted this so much!

ETA I think also there has been an awful lot about the Tudors in popular culture over the last 20 years and the Civil War and Protectorate hasn’t been ‘fashionable’ for a long time now.