to think some people actually wish we didn't live in a welfare state?

[milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk]

all this talk, about whether it is right for parents to choose not to return to work, and why do people keep having children when they are on a low income.
and all the other million threads on MN about people on benefits etc.

makes me wonder, do you actually wish we didn't live in a welfare state?

i certainaly don't, no NHS people dying because they counldn't afford treatment.
people that are disabled, sick and unable to get a job, struggling to eat, living rough etc

be a pretty unpleasant country then you know.

AtheneNoctua, I'm not talking about pain killers, I'm talking about life saving medication.

Like I said, I've lived both sides of the pond and I'm on preventitive treatment this side I couldn't get that side.

It's not just as simple in America that you have to pay for some of your treatment.

Tinkerbellesmum - now I understand what you're saying, and yes we do hear of people who get medications from Canada/Mexico because it isn't covered by insurance and is prohibitively expensive in the US.

But, that can't be classed as a problem that exists only in the American healthcare system. We also regularly read about how the NHS refuses to provide lifesaving/life-altering drugs because they are too expensive. And we also hear about people who travel to other countries for treatment because they can't/don't want to wait for the NHS.

I think healthcare is a problem most everywhere, tbh.

I didn't mention what the aspirin was used for. But, I think as far as medicines go, aspirin is one that people whould not expect to get on prescription. I get migrains. Sumatriptan comes in prescription and non prescription form. The non-prescription costs £4 per pill. Consider I take about 10 a month. That I consider a bit pricey.

Have I missed a trick on the NHS? Does everyone get things they need on prescription even if they could just buy it?

Yeah I do feel responsibility, I would love to go back to work, I would have done it ten years ago if I could! I have done official voluntary work, but every time I ended up so ill I couldn't carry on. If we had no children we couldn't live together. I'm not going to put my life on hold forever because I'm too ill to work.

No they don't, but when it's life saving medication they are entitled to it. Not my opinion, that's the law. If you don't take your migrane pills you won't die. I could! My baby already has died from this disease.

My experience of the American healthcare system is that it usually does its best with regards to preventative care so that people don't have to take off work.

But again, some folks who don't have insurance will put off getting to a doctor until it becomes an emergency.

And chronic and catastropic illnesses pose major problems if you're in a state that allows insurance companies to decline pre-existing conditions or your employer changes carriers or you have no insurance and sustain serious injuries and/or a catastrophic illness like cancer.

Yes, you'll get treated, but you'll be left with the bill for it for a very long time, potentially for life, and/or levelled against your estate.

Also, your share or co-pay of a bill, even with very good insurance and even for such quite routine procedures like bypass, can be extortionate.

And, you insurance can come back and deny payment for some care and leave you with a very nasty and stressful battle on your hands and debt collectors harrassing you.

Okay, I'm sorry you're ill, but I don't think I asked for that. I'm just trying to understand how the system works. I thought prescriptions were just for drugs you can't buy off the shelf.

'It's about hating poor and vulnerable people dressed up as a moral standpoint, which it isn't. '

Poppycock.

It's about hating people who screw the system and make things hard for the people who don't...as well as the people who pay for it.

And I'm quite happy to moan about company's that don't fulfil their tax obligations and rich people who avoid their obligations.

I happen to believe that the wealthy should step up the plate and pay their taxes just like the middle classes do (or at least as most of them do) and they should NOT be allowed to become tax exiles where their income is protected.

A cheat is a cheat...the extent of the cheating really doesn't matter.

I think you make a good point squilly. It always annoys me when people say 'but what about the huge companies which make mega-bucks and cheat the system'... yeah, they're a disgrace and should be dealt with too. It doesn't let the individuals cheats off the hook. I think any sort of cheating, or screwing the system is just wrong! You don't have laws which apply to some people and not others. This is absolutely not about 'hating' people (interesting that dittany is the one who brought up the idea of hating people ). no one else has used that terminology. It's not about the person it's about what they are doing ie screwing the system. I couldnt give a toss whether someone is a public school educated wealthy businessman or a lone parent in a council house - cheating is wrong!!

It wasn't meant to be as sharp as it may have sounded and I wasnt asking for sympathy.

Prescriptions aren't just for drugs that aren't OTC, I have had paracetamol, Ibuprofen, Gaviscon, co-codamol and others on prescription when I've needed them in greater quantities than can be bought. Also preventive dose Aspirin isn't the painkilling dose.

expat, maybe that's the problem with this disease, it's congenital and causes everything else that you can get separately(which is what makes it the worst) so it's almost impossible to get insurance in America for it. I'm sorry I'm having a bad week with my brain and it's skipping over a lot of things I do know.

I've heard some real horror stories from America. People being dumped out of a taxi late at night because their money ran out. People being refused bone marrow because it's "experimental". Children dying because they weren't close enough to the right hospital and the nearest hospital wouldn't take them.

America treats the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay better - they have a HCP:prisoner ratio of 1:5!

I'm not getting into a debate of my personal circumstances, I've said more than I really would like on here. I don't get any single parent benefits and I don't get anymore child benefits than I would if we were a couple. My partner more than pays for all his children, but we (Tink and I) don't see it because of the way the system works.

You can believe what you like about me but as we'll never meet and you will never be someone that bothers me I don't care what you think.

I won't carry on this debate of my circumstances which you know very little of anyway.

I've got a low paid job £ 5.52 an hour, for 20 hours a week, no childcare bills as I work evenings/weekends around the kids

dh earns less than 20k

I'd be better off NOT working, but I like to work

even if you are worse off working sometimes it's better for you to get out the house

agree the system is crap, there is no incentive for people like me

I'm painting people who spend £350 on a puppy dog who don't work as being cheats and scroungers...

I'm painting a chap who will work abroad, cash in hand, but won't work in the UK as a cheat and a scrounger.

That's not hate...it's common sense.

And I'm not rich! So I'd be cutting my own nose off if I slagged off the poor. I'm from a family of 6 kids who lived on the poverty line for all our young lives, thanks very much, so I know what it's like to be poor.

Are you taking this discussion personally because you're on benefits? Because, certainly from my perspective, I'm not against people claiming benefits. But I am against people who scrounge from the system when they are as able to work as I am, but too bloody lazy to do so!

And I don't mean single parents....I mean young single people who are fit and healthy but somehow manage to live incredibly well on benefits.

If that's not wrong, I don't know what is!

although we all can bring personal experiences to inform out decisisions, its unhelpful i think to state that you know a guy who cheated this and that

and therefore

ALL the benefits system should be scrapped

there are always going to be people who wangle it

thats not a reason to not have it

Squilly, if that was for me it was in reply to a post to me. I happy to talk about benefits in a general sense but don't want to get questioned on my personal benefits and situation. I'm not the sort to take threads personally, unless it turns that way.

"I don't get any single parent benefits and I don't get anymore child benefits than I would if we were a couple. My partner more than pays for all his children, but we (Tink and I) don't see it because of the way the system works."

If that was the case, then why would you be financially worse off if you lived together? Surely paying to run two houses costs more. Financially worse off or not, the state shouldnt pay for you to have more children just because you choose to claim as a single person rather than as a family. A prime example as to why our system needs changing.

What will you tell your children when they ask why you dont live together - sorry kids, but I wanted the benefits?

Athenenoctua, Our doctors wont prescribe calpol. gaviscon, etc thats readily available over the counter. They have a notice in reception advising people not to ask for prescriptions for items on the list. So you're not alone in thinking prescriptions are for items that can be bought over the counter.

We're not paying for two homes, he doesn't have his own home. But that's all part of the circumstances that I'm not going to discuss because there is far more to it than I am willing to get into a message board.

This is my whole point, but perhaps I'm not putting it well.

I'm not saying all benefit claimants are in the wrong and there shouldn't be a welfare state.

I'm saying the system isn't working effectively and citing examples of where it's wrong..and clearly wrong.

This is the kind of thing that enrages people and that is clearly unjust.

If you check my earlier posts you'll see that I support the system for those who need it BUT there are people like the two I cited (I should know, they're in my family) who are screwing the system. And THAT shouldn't be allowed...

Does that make things clearer?

And I wouldn't want to know anyone's personal circumstances where benefits were concerned. I just perceived a sensitivity that any objectors to any claimants were clearly attacking the poor. And that's certainly not my intention....

Squilly, I understand your post, but if you look back people have been pushing me for more information and that's what I was responding to. I agree with your post.