to think some people actually wish we didn't live in a welfare state?

[milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk]

all this talk, about whether it is right for parents to choose not to return to work, and why do people keep having children when they are on a low income.
and all the other million threads on MN about people on benefits etc.

makes me wonder, do you actually wish we didn't live in a welfare state?

i certainaly don't, no NHS people dying because they counldn't afford treatment.
people that are disabled, sick and unable to get a job, struggling to eat, living rough etc

be a pretty unpleasant country then you know.

"Put in black and white like that, if my job was one that I hated, and dd was really unhappy with me working (which she is sometimes) and I was tired & stressed all the time as a result of it (which I am sometimes), and the child care juggle was a huge hassle (which it has been on occasion) why the hell should I continue working, for just pennies more?"

And why should the state pay for you not to work?? This is exactly why our system needs reform so that it is not a choice to live on benefits.

i'm well aware of the benefits system, jammi.

we only earn about £15,000 as a couple.

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I actually wish we didn't live in a welfare state >>please don't throw stones at me

'I know it sounds odd, but i would like it if we had to take out medical insurance etc.'

I lived in a country where you have to do this.

It's medical bills dwarf the NHS. It spends more on healthcare per person than any other place in the world.

And its failings are so great that federal legislation was passed to make it extremely difficult to be declared bankrupt due to medical debt, as so many were having to do so.

Myself included.

Believe you me, you don't want to live in a place like this.

"the benefit system doesnt provide just enough, for those who know how to milk it it provides a good standard of living, otherwise how could people on benefits run cars, go on holidays, buy designer label clothes, afford sky tv and broadband, and lots of other things that could and should be considered luxuries???"

I have known people who have these things!

I live in a country without a welfare state. It ain't pretty, believe you me.

I know people on benefits who run a car. And smoke. So clearly it's perfectly possible.

The only thing i hate though is when someone says "someone on benefits," people always think of someone who lives on a council estate, dressed as a chav, fag in mouth with 8 kids!

People who claim benefits aren't just that type of stereotype. People who live in private rented accomodation still claim housing benefit as well as other various benefits. I wouldn't ever judge anyone who is genuine claiming benefits, i just want this country to change it's attitude because it stinks at the moment.

I suppose the ones with sky tv and cars etc could be up to their neck in debt. You don't know from looking outside in i suppose.

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I grew up in a country without a welfare state and that is certainly not something I would want for this country.

However I do think that we have evolved too much into a society where we all feel we are entitled to being kept by the state if that is what we desire.

No-one should ever earn more on benefits than if they were in paid employment. Ever. Unless they are absolutely physically incapable of work due to long-term illness or serious disability.

Peple who are claiming benefits due to unemployment should only be entitled to do so for a set period of time imo. After that they should have to work to earn their benefits. Cleaning the street/hospitals/being involved in volunteering with youth organizations etc. If you are genuinely unemployed and seaking work then you will do anything in order to earn your money, and if you?re not bothered about finding work then you?ll lose your benefits. It would certainly sort out the genuine cases from the wasters who think the taxpayer owes them a living.

I certainly know people on benefits who can afford sky tv, even one who went to live with his gf in America for three months at a time while the dss paid his benefits over here. And mil?s cousin who is 18 and has two children and who moves house every six months because every time the council gives her a new house she also gets a moving in allowance. But she doesn?t actually live in the houses ? she lives with her mum. So she?s putting someone else out of a home and is collecting from the councel. Oh and wonder of wonders she?s off on a 2 week holiday to Turkey in next few weeks. .

The system needs a serious overhall, because atm it?s just far too easy to be a scrounger, and it?s the scroungers and the wasters who give those that claim benefits a bad name.

The medical system in the USA scares me.

The NHS has its funding problems, but I really don't believe that we should have a system of medical insurance to pay for care. The ones who often need it most are often the ones who can afford it least.

TenaciousG is correct, there are deprived areas in the USA which have appalling neonatal mortality rates as well as life expectancies comparable to some developing countries. There are people who die prematurely by several decades beacuse they can't afford medication for treatable chronic diseases such as diabetes. For the wealthiest nation in the world, I find this shameful.

'The medical system in the USA scares me. '

As well you should.

In fact, being an American/British dual national myself, every time I hear or read of someone extolling the virtures of the American healthcare 'system' - and I use that term loosely - I get a chill down my spine.

I can't count the number of nights I barely slept or qualify the stress I went through in the months after I was declared bankrupt.

Medical debt was the nail in my coffin.

Something big? Something major?

No. My car, on which I could only afford third-party insurance, was struck by a drunken motorist who was driving a friend's car - without the friend's permission.

A common, every day occurance.

I know people who have to chose between hypertension drugs and food.

People who live in states with no programme for children whose children don't see a doctor when they're ill.

Lots of them.

It's not good, people.