To ask how she manages to fit in when I don’t!

[Deaaae]

My son is in year 2 now and I often feel like I don’t fit in with the other mums and in return my son doesn’t get invited to play dates and is not included. It’s a small school with small classes and 2 form entry. It’s an infants school so this will be my sons last year here. I didn’t always feel like this - in beginning I was chatty to everyone and friendly but then I started noticing a few mums were very cold and when I asked for play dates I was met with “oh sorry too busy”, the girls mums were friendliest so I just had play dates with them. I was casually talking to another mum (let’s call her Bea) about this I didn’t mention any names and just focused on how I’m feeling, she was able to correctly identify the 3 main ones and told me not to worry as they only bother with people with money and who are skinny! I was quite shocked at this. She proceeded to tell me they all have regular meet ups with the boys and it’s sad my son doesn’t get invited. Bea gets invited apparently too.

I kind of gave up after this conversation (happened in reception class) I just dropped off and picked up and smiled but didn’t stay longer.

I started getting on with the mums from other class who are very down to earth and warm but today walking out with one (let’s call her Sam) I saw how easily she managed to talk to this cliquey group who have always excluded me and it got me thinking why can’t I be more like her?

also does anyone think Bea might be a shit stirrer and I let her words influence how I’m feeling about the school in general?

I did mention to Sam another time how I felt excluded and her experience is not the same she really likes the school and thinks everyone is lovely. She’s very much like me - not a size zero and definitely not a millionaire! So how can she do it but I can’t?

I don't think people who go around in cliquey groups are rational people when it comes to criteria about who they like or dislike. I also think it says a lot about their own insecurities and lack of self confidence that they can only function as a group and can't hack it as individuals.

I also think.you are in a self fulling scenario in that the more you feel excluded by this group the more you are letting it affect your interaction with other people.

I know its an easy thing to say but try not to focus on these women. Be yourself. Interact with the other mums who you have been friendly to you. And stop bringing up how you feel excluded from the cliquey group because it really will start to make you look paranoid.

I’d stop talking about the other mums tbh it will always get back to them, usually in some exaggerated form, and will make it sound like you’ve moaned about them.

I wouldn't worry about it. You only have another year there, and who cares if some people don't like you? It's a shame for your son but so long as it doesn't spill over into school, it's no big deal.

You can't make them include you. It's their loss if they can't be polite.

One of my son's friend's mums clearly doesn't like me for some reason. She won't meet my eye and pretends she can't see me when we're queuing together. Whatever! She and her mates are a bit chavvy anyway, no loss.

This is ridiculous, OP. You've taken one person's interpretation of a situation and accepted it as gospel, and only now you're starting to wonder why a fellow-parent you barely knew decided to tell you you were unacceptable because you were poor and fat???

'Cliques' are a monomania with Mn. Some people just don't like you, and you'll find some of them everywhere. Why focus on three individuals who don't like you? School is not intended for your social life! Invite the children your child likes on playdates.

I didn't in the least 'fit in' with the other parents at the primary school DS attended from Reception to Year 3 (WOHP, foreigner etc in a situation where almost everyone else had known one another from their own schooldays and where SAHMs were the norm), and I still invited their children over, if DS liked them. How many times have you invited a child over after school and the parent has said a blanket no?

YANBU not to bother with people who are horrible, but at the same time, my DD is in Y2, we don't do a lot of playdates and I don't know most of the school mums otherwise than for a quick hello in the queue or at a birthday party. I am not unfriendly and neither are the others, I am just busy with work and life. It is possible that many people are not meaning to shun you, they are just genuinely quite busy and the school gate is not a priority for them.

I'd say there are maybe 3 main reasons for this.

1. Your child is disuptive/a bully in class. The mums hear about it/see it and decide they'd rather not be around in outside school. This sadly often also applies to DC with disabilities.
2. You are unsettling in some way. Maybe not your fault. You don't fit in with their social group (eg they all are mad on yoga, go to the same church, have horses, their partners play football together etc.), or you appear too desperate (which is often socially alarming to others) or laden with drama (turbulent personal life, gossipy/bitchy with people you hardly know, constantly complaining).
3. People feel their social cup is filled. They are not looking for more friends. They are busy enough and have enough of a social circle to get on with. They may acquire some organically, but are not actively seeking out new people.

With the first one, a new school would help - even if DC improves, it can be hard to shake off the public perception of your child. With the second two, stop being so desperate. Be constantly about, smiling, nodding hello, gradually making small talk. Be socially unthreatening. Gradually you will be tolerated, then accepted. Eventually you will have regular people to chat to at the school gate and some of those may turn out to be friends. But don't be creating drama, complaining that people don't like you, demanding attention. Because who needs that in their lives? We are all busy people and have our own priorities.

I would also not talk about how you feel to any other Mums. Unfortunately, seeming vulnerable or like you care/ need friends is the most likely thing to put people off - sad but true!

Just be bright and breezy (not in a forced way, just relaxed), be yourself and spend time with those who like you. Come across as having so much going on outside school you don’t give it a thought.

Kids start making their own friendships from about this age anyway, and the Mum group meet ups with fade out.

When my dd (my eldest) was in reception I thought a few mums were a clique and was upset (internally) at my dd not being invited to some things. Turns out they all had older kids further up the school or at the same secondary / lived near each other and had known one another for years, so naturally they were a friendship group. They were actually perfectly nice and my dd is friends with some of their dds in sixth form!

Totally agree with all of this.

My son went to a primary school where 95 percent of the mums were not my people. I found maybe three mums eho ai genuinly liked but never made proper mum friends bar one person who i am still in contact with.
Tbh if people are not your kind of people then there is little point in trying to fit in. Ita never going to be a full on friendship and therefore just general hello and being nice is good. No need to go deeper and hang out having coffee etc.

You made a mistake talking about it.

It’s not as if the woman you told was ever going to able to make the situation change. I avoid people that I barely know that talk about feelings because it indicates a possibility of drama. I always avoid over sharers. I joined a few hiking groups when I retired and unfortunately many of them had one or two over sharers. I’m not totally heartless if someone I hardly knew had a bereavement or their loved one was seriously ill I would be fine with that.

I don’t feel I made a mistake. I know it didn’t help but I’m from a mindset that a problem should be talked about. I know you don’t know me and obviously have only this to go about but I don’t over share all my life. I only spoke to 2 people one of whom I feel is a good friend . Life is getting more anti-social and more MH issues as people hide their feelings and put in a fake smile (myself included in that btw) I think it’s okay to occasionally let the smile drop and speak our heart.

Excuse the typos!

I’d agree IF you had actually spoke to the people about the problem. What you did was gossip- that’s your mistake.

To fix a problem you have to talk to those involved. Talking to other people about those involved isn’t problem solving, it’s gossiping. Personally I steer well clear of people who gossip about others because I’m well aware if they will gossip about others to me then they will also gossip about me to others!

Bea sounds like a bit of a cow. I don't think I would worry about it too much, OP, there are obviously lots of other mums who are happy to chat to you and arrange playdates and he'll be off to big school soon anyway 😘

Well, look at the effect that it had. You chose to show your insecurities to someone who told you that the reason you were being cold-shouldered was because you were poor and heft, and you apparently accepted that and gave up. Therefore telling her, and believing her response, were both definite mistakes.

There's a big middle ground between (1) plastering on a fake smile and bottling up negative emotions around real, longtime friends, and (2) blurting out your worries about your social life to virtual strangers -- and if you told 'Bea' this in Reception, you can barely have known one another. Make peace with the fact that in any environment, not everyone will like you, and that's fine.

Don't mind them, you won't be the only one they are leave out.
Idiots.

@MrsBobtonTrent has nailed it.
And gossiping about these other parents with "Bea" doesn't help your case either.

Most likely this "clique" is all in your head anyway?
I probably come across as being "cliquey" in the school playground as there is a specific group of women I tend to talk to. What the other parents don't know is that we're all in the same running club and train together. Often we run in the early mornings so we might have just come from a run when we're then seen at drop-off by others.
But from the outside people like you could well be thinking "oh they're ignoring me, they only like thin people (wtaf?!) why are they inviting each other out on a weekend"... etc etc.

You really need to not give this so much headspace. If they aren't inviting you to meet-ups chances are it's not because they don't like you; it's because they just haven't thought about you at all. You're only making things worse by gossiping about them and jumping to conclusions.

Either your son has been a bit of an arse with their children and they don’t want awkward conversations where they have to turn down play dates, or they are quite good friends (maybe they know each other outside school, have older kids in the same class or just get on well) and this is not about you at all.

There’s a whole load of overthinking here.

I don’t know why people are so desperate to make friends with other school mums. I saw it at our school where kids were forced to socialise with each other because their parents liked to get together, but what my daughter was reporting was, those kids hated each other, never spent time together at school, were constantly falling out.

I became friendly with a few of the parents of the kids my daughter was friends with. We helped each other out when we needed it, chatted from time to time, but I never saw any of this as something I should be doing to widen my social circle.

Play dates are not the best all and end all of a child’s life. They go to school and see other kids, it isn’t vital they also see those kids out of school. If you are worried about him socially, have him join some kind of club, sports, dance, cubs etc. If the other mums aren’t inviting him it’s because those kids aren’t asking for him to be invited. That doesn’t mean he is an outcast or problematic, it can just be they aren’t friends. I grew up in a small village with a tiny school, only 6 girls and 4 boys in the class. We weren’t all friends, there were some of the kids I didn’t like spending time with and I’m sure they felt the same about me.

And, stop gossiping about others. Nobody will want to be associated with you if you do that.

You know how she does it? She doesn’t have self-confidence issues or compare herself or anything really. Seriously. Why so self-conscious? No one really gives a shit IMO.

So you have gone to two people now talking about this group. I think it’s you. You’ve judged them , going around speaking about them to others and also judging the people you have gossiped about. Can you not see how you come across

One of my son's friend's mums clearly doesn't like me for some reason. She won't meet my eye and pretends she can't see me when we're queuing together. Whatever! She and her mates are a bit chavvy anyway, no loss.

I just can’t imagine why they don’t like you. You seem so lovely. 🤷‍♀️

😂If she were nice to me I'd be nice to her. While still thinking inwardly that she's a bit chavvy, because she is.

I think that's perfectly likely. No one is going to want more contact with a woman who seems obsessed only with a set of parents she perceives as 'excluding her'. and, crucially, gossips about them to other people who are in their circle!

Gossiping like that is one way to ensure your continued exclusion.