To ask how she manages to fit in when I don’t!

[Deaaae]

My son is in year 2 now and I often feel like I don’t fit in with the other mums and in return my son doesn’t get invited to play dates and is not included. It’s a small school with small classes and 2 form entry. It’s an infants school so this will be my sons last year here. I didn’t always feel like this - in beginning I was chatty to everyone and friendly but then I started noticing a few mums were very cold and when I asked for play dates I was met with “oh sorry too busy”, the girls mums were friendliest so I just had play dates with them. I was casually talking to another mum (let’s call her Bea) about this I didn’t mention any names and just focused on how I’m feeling, she was able to correctly identify the 3 main ones and told me not to worry as they only bother with people with money and who are skinny! I was quite shocked at this. She proceeded to tell me they all have regular meet ups with the boys and it’s sad my son doesn’t get invited. Bea gets invited apparently too.

I kind of gave up after this conversation (happened in reception class) I just dropped off and picked up and smiled but didn’t stay longer.

I started getting on with the mums from other class who are very down to earth and warm but today walking out with one (let’s call her Sam) I saw how easily she managed to talk to this cliquey group who have always excluded me and it got me thinking why can’t I be more like her?

also does anyone think Bea might be a shit stirrer and I let her words influence how I’m feeling about the school in general?

I did mention to Sam another time how I felt excluded and her experience is not the same she really likes the school and thinks everyone is lovely. She’s very much like me - not a size zero and definitely not a millionaire! So how can she do it but I can’t?

Don't "speak your heart" in the school playground, won't end well

I think cliques are really just groups of people who have stuff - or children - in common and it can be easy to feel excluded.
I have definitely felt like that during the achool years (mine started in Year 3 today) a) I'm socially awkward b) my twins have SEN and one has challenging behaviour so, simply put, does not have many friends and c) we live over the other side of town, so are not really part of that school/village-y community.
I've tried to just radically accept it and get on with my life, as I'm only at the school gates for 10/15 minutes twice a day.
I also try to share my vulnerabilities with other school parents nowadays and stay out of gossip/talking about other parents.
It helps to lower expectations and keep things simple. 🤸‍♀️

I hope I don’t sound harsh but people you’re trying to get to know or know only casually don’t want to hear about your feelings. If you do need to share them for the sake of your mental health you need to share them with someone willing to listen.
If someone I knew casually told me about a problem with a mutual acquaintance I’d be uncomfortable. All I’d expect is to exchange pleasantries or chat about something innocuous. Someone I’m happy to pass the time of day with complaining about someone else I’m happy to pass the time of day with would have me backing away

This 100%

Well, from the OP's account of her own behaviour on this thread, I'd say this group of fellow-parents has perfectly rational reasons for not being keen on her -- she overshares, has been talking about them in negative terms to people they do socialise with, and then 'gave up' on them because of obviously shit-stirring advice from a third-party, which she believed. The group clearly doesn't choose to socialise only with rich, thin people, as 'Sam', who also hangs out with them, is apparently roughly akin to the OP in terms of money and body type, so 'Bea''s information about their 'admissions criteria' is clearly untrue.

But this is a mess of the OP's own making. With luck, she's learned from it, and won't replicate the mistakes when her child moves school.

Sounds like a you problem

Do people not just go to the playground, drop their kids off and go to work or get on with the rest of their day?
Why is it such a drama?

Oh god why should women you barely know 'include you' in stuff? How do you know they weren't friends/colleagues/neighbours for years before their kids were at school? You were shocked they socialise with people like them? Come on. Most mums at my kids' school gate knew each other already because we moved to a new area so hadn't been to nursery, baby groups etc. I was friendly with everybody and became actual friends with a couple I clicked with. Most of them are not my kind of people.

Your desperation will be very obvious. Just be polite and breezy and deal with your own life. Or get thin and rich really quickly so they'll be nice to you.

Ah this. You come across as wanting to bitch about the other mums and I’d distance myself from you. Lots of us have got our own worries like ill parents, financial concerns, work issues etc. I wouldn’t want to even slightly be drawn into someone else’s trivial issues at school pick up. Sorry. You need to be breezy, polite and interested in the other mums without ever mentioning your mental health or any perceived slight with any other mutual acquaintances.

In your shoes I'd think about what you're after. Your son will make friends and you'll facilitate his choices.

If you want friends, school isn't the place to find them.

If you just want amicable enough company while your son plays, I suggest blocking out the noise of whether the parents are nice or your sort of person and just make the best of it.

Bea seemed alright and you've cut her off because she clumsily agreed woth you as best she could, while clarifying she is invited so that 1. You didnt think she was two-faced if you saw them out together and 2. As a gentle warning that shes friends with those people and not to do it again.

I agree with another poster, never ever raise this stuff with other parents, it's really off-putting and people will avoid you.

Look at it this way you bitched to Bea and she replied, perhaps clumsily, and you didn't like it. No good comes from it.

That might hold true if you were talking to the people you perceive to have the problem with you.

Instead, you gossiped about it with someone else, which was never going to make the situation better and has all the potential in the world to make it worse.

You have obviously never been in a position where you feel socially isolated and excluded.
All i see in OP 's post is a desire to fit in and that she is struggling with the dynamics of the friendship groups of the other mothers .

Just be nice to people and don't talk behind their backs, they will find out. Very much a situation where if you have nothing nice to say say nothing. You are only striking up acquaintanceships not life long friendships (at least mostly) just keep it light. And someone really might be too busy on a day you asked about a play date, did you persevere and say how about next week or when would suit you?

Could it be you are better socially on a one to one basis with people rather than a group, especially during the chaos of school drop off and pick up? I too, have a friend who chats to anyone and everyone whereas I find it quite difficult depending on the circumstances. I used to feel a bit insecure but reframed it that it's not personal if someone doesn't want to chat because they don't really know you - so it can't be personal. And if they are clicky and that's not you, then they're not the right people for you either.

Maybe when your DC child starts their next school you could have some things in the back of your mind to say to people while waiting at pick up to start conversations. And if they're busy or don't chat much then it's not personal, that's just them.

I agree not to talk about other parents though, it's not worth it.

You care too much. They came see that and it's off-putting.

Stop talking about people behind their backs, you will be known as a gossip.

Honestly, I think some people just are on the look out for being excluded/cliques existing. It's always (sorry this is harsh) a bit hypocritical. Your story is:
Some mums made friends with each other and hung out together with one another more than they did with me, they were all quite similar and had lots to chat about with each other.
I made friends with some other people, and we talked about those mums behind their backs and said mean things.
Then I went for a walk with another friend I've made at the school and we talked about them again, but she said they're actually quite nice and now I think maybe I've been too cold to them.

The reality is, yes they probably have formed a little group, yes they maybe do have similar economic circumstances, or similar interests (perhaps they're not "only interested in skinny bitches", perhaps they actually all just enjoy yoga and clean eating and share recipes and gym info together). This is how friendships get made, we don't all have to invite everyone we've ever met in the playground to every activity we ever do. People form groups with those they get on with, have similar interests with etc. There's probably another mum similar to you going "I saw OP and Sam off for a walk today and they never invited me, they're a real clique, they're always chatting without me"
Ultimately, be kind, open and friendly to everyone, maybe they'll become friends, maybe they won't. You'll naturally bond with people you're similar too. It's very churlish to be annoyed that some other people have made friends too and its really mean to moan about this behind their backs to other people, make judgements about why theyre friends and change your behaviour towards them because they happen to hang out without you sometimes...

apologies if this sounds hardh but why do you care? Clearly they aren’t nice/kind and no doubt their kids will be watching this….do you really want you or your son around that toxicity?

Let your son find his group and that might be when he’s in his new school 🤷🏼‍♀️ my brother never found his ‘group’ til he was much older and that’s ok!

I've never bothered with other parents at school I drop off and pick up that's it . It's always been the same with cliques on the playground and I want no part of it at all

You can’t please or get along with everyone.

You give at least two examples of mums who you do fit in, get along, and meet with.

I wouldn’t give the others headspace.

Maybe that group just isn’t the right kind of friend for you anyway. Sometimes I think a lot of ‘clique’ stuff around school in reality is just a small group of women who get on well and have stuff in common outside of having children who go to the same school. Not everyone has to be friends with everyone else. Friendly, sure, but I have a small group of school mum friends who are friends because we like each other over and above having children in the same class and we see each other outside of school a fair bit, go out for meals, etc. So we probably do gravitate towards each other in the 10 mins per day we are in the school playground. I don’t think that’s a clique but some people might!

I’ve never spoken to some of the other mums and that’s fine. As someone upthread put it so well, my social cup is full. Friendships take time and effort to maintain and I have enough friends, so while I’ll be polite and make small talk, I’m not really looking for new friends as it can be hard fitting in meaningful time with the ones I already have.

"Speaking your heart" isn't gossiping about mutual acquaintances.

If I were Sam I'd be pulling back from you. If you bitch about the other mothers, when will you start to bitch about me...

Maybe this 'clique' is just a group of friends who know and like each other and don't feel the need for more friends.

Honestly, you are better off without people who judge you because of the above list of reasons.

Find better people.

The social judging, hierarchy, and class bullshit that mum's at the gate take part in says more about their shallowness and limited ability to think further than having a perfect child, perfect affect, perfect hobbies, perfect friends, all snapped for Instagram showing off.

In reality their lives are not perfect believe me!

They judge you and leave you out to feel better themselves.
God forbid your child has neurodiversity, or you do, or you live in a council house.

These mum's were the ones who were vile bitches back at school. They don't stop being bullies, they just grow up. You find them in the workplace, school playground gates.

It's confidence, why wait to be invited, organise a group meeting with the children some will come some won't. There are some gossipy mums attached to DS' class, I avoid the drama don't get involved in conversations about others (apart from with DH when it all goes wild on the class WhatsApp group), I talk to anyone whoever is at the school gate, I know some of the mums won't talk to others because of various fallings out and it is in places like they are not 'cool' enough. I find it all very immature and ridiculous, if I'm talking to them and another mum arrives I chat to them and use my body language to include them into the group already chatting. I don't care if others don't want them in their clique I don't exclude people. I had one mum roll her eyes and laugh because another had invited us all for her birthday drinks, another said I might go depending who who is going, I had already replied and said yeah I'm free that day sounds good. I know she's had a rough time recently with her daughter's health and could probably use a night out. If I'm free and I want to go i will, regardless of what others think and regardless of who else is going. I also went in with the attitude that these relationships are transient I have the friends I need but I'll be friendly to facilitate DS' relationships

this.

Join the PTA and start volunteering, you'll meet people a lot more efficiently than gossiping about other mums.