To be angry with people who describe the old age pension as a "benefit"?

[FlubandSlub]

When I started my working life, aged 16, I entered into an agreement with the government for them to save my pension money for me. It was stated that it would be until I turned 60 which would be when I could starting drawing my old age pension. Even though I made my FULL pension payment contributions by the time I turned 51 the government has decided it will not abide by the original agreement and that it is going to keep MY money until I am 67. Probably hoping I will die before then.

Consider this, not only did I contribute to my pension, my employer did too. It totalled 15% of my income before taxes. If you averaged only £15 000 p a. over your working life, that's close to £220,500. Read that again. Did you see anywhere that the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money that I and my employer put in a Government bank to ensure that I would have a retirement pension. It was not money that the Government had any right to spend on other things! Upon reaching the age to take it back they've started to call the money we paid in a "benefit" !

If you calculate the future invested value of £2500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (that's less than what the govtpays on the money that it borrows from overseas), after 49 years of working you'd have
£892,919.98.

This money was supposed to be in a securely locked box, not to be used as part of the Government's general funds.
Successive governments borrowed the money to spend on other things but that doesn't make my pension some kind of charity or handout!! If a private pension company did this we would sue them. Unfortunately the Government can legally rob us blind and get away with it

IT'S MY MONEY! IT IS NOT A BENEFIT!!

You didn't work 50 years to earn it! Have you not read any of the comments on the thread that explain this. Even people who didn't work 5 minutes still get a pension or pension credit top ups.

My impression is that RR keeps talking about balancing the books again and again because she is trying to convince markets that she and her government are responsible and will pay back their debts.
Yes, their ability to print money is limitless but the consequences of this could be gigantic. Otherwise, all the central banks would be doing it constantly. I'm quite sure they will restart QE on steroids once the shit really hits the fan regardless.

The average pensioner claims double what the put in, far more in cases like your mum. They also get other benefits like free prescriptions and free public transport.

To make any radical changes to the state pension, stopping it entirely for instance, any government would have to set a date so far in the future that those still working have time to boost their private pensions (and that particular party will be long gone so not their circus, not their monkeys). It can be done.

wrong quote

This.

First post summed it up.

Does anyone else read this and think at least you get a pension. I’m 45 with many years of contributions and strongly suspect there will be means testing in the future. All the joys of paying for todays pensioners and funding the NHS which I can’t get an appointment with or a dentist! Obviously something needs to be done but I imagine it’s my generation which will get properly fucked over.

That's the problem and goes some way to explain the inter generational division and anger, especially when you see very entitled attitudes from current pensioners or nearly pensioners.

Op is still missing, I see

Anything can be done in theory. Of course, in practice, it is much harder. In reality, we will probably see cuts or less than inflation increases, means testing, etc before people of, say 20, have been given 40-50 years to save up. In any case, young and middle aged people now are finding it much harder to save up than the previous generation as basics such as housing currently cost far more relative to income. Many people are hardly saving anything currently.

Closer to 100% than a half. People tend to work 30-40 years but will be claiming state pension for maybe 20 years on average. NIC paid is a relatively small percentage on their earnings over their working life. Taking current figures, state pension is £12k for 20 years so that's £240k. Divide that by 40 working years and it's £6k per year of NICs needed. Considering NIC doesn't just cover state pension, it also covers other benefits and some goes towards NIC. Far less than half the population will have paid more than £6k per year on average in NIC. Someone on average earnings of around £38k will be paying around £2-£3 k p.a. in NIC on today's figures. It's really only those earning a lot more than average who'll have paid enough NIC to cover their state pension. I'd guess at maybe the highest 80-90% of earners.

I find the pensioners I know who complain the most are fine financially speaking. I know a couple with 2 state pension plus small private pensions plus 2 higher rate attendance allowance plus 2* carer allowance (for each other) They get over £4k a month between them from the state, own a home outright, free care (Scotland) but the whinging about the WFA was epic.

I don’t think they have it easy it is rubbish to be old/ housebound and dying, slowly, from various conditions. They aren’t poor though despite the constant complaining of how hard done by they are.

Their State Pensions must be tiny if they are getting Carer's Allowance. If they are getting CA, their, that means their combined SP and CA is £83.90 p/w and no more.

That should be £83.30 (each, p/w).

This is why we have so many people ignorant about how the immigration system works.

Please explain what you mean.

Will the above bother any government though? If it's decided that the state pension is totally unviable and, let's say, 40 years' notice is given to get rid with no annual increases while it's wound down, then those who've been unable to save enough/anything into a private pension will be supported by other benefits; this would include those already claiming their pension because inflation would have stripped it of any value - a sneaky way of means testing. Only an idea.

40 years' notice

How does that square with our electoral cycle ?

And this doesn’t include the other pension related benefits such as bus passes, prescriptions, WFA etc. Then the increased use of NHS services.

Hardly any of those who say they’ve ’worked all their life’ have paid anywhere near as much as they are taking out.

Count your lucky stars you were born when you were because most of us on here will pay in the the pot, exactly the way you did, only we won’t receive anything back! such is the state of the county! Lucky you

Everyone gets a state pension. You haven't entered into any agreement with the government. Where is the paperwork for this agreement?

It is a benefit and it's the benefit that costs the taxpayer the most.

There's nothing wrong with the word 'benefit'. If you worked all your life then claimed UC for six months you could argue you've paid into the system. But it's still a benefit.

You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder and you don't really understand how state pension is funded.

That’s always been the way though. The old blame the young and the young blame the old. That’s the way the government likes it because while we’re blaming each other we’re leaving them alone.

@Coolasfeck and plenty of those doing the ‘I’ve worked hard all my life’ are sadly women of my own age and upwards (63) who really haven’t , I appreciate that many have spent long periods caring for children or parents and a home etc - which is very valuable work - but if it comes down to hard cash on ‘what they’ve paid in’ they simply haven’t , so I suggest they moan a little less and accept their good fortune in being around at a time when it hasn’t come down to pure financial contributions. They are getting out far more than was ever paid in with a great many people .

part of the problem is we haven't killed off a couple of generations in a war.

Being fair, 80 years of not fighting a massive war every 20 years is unprecedented in British and European history.

Amazing how far 1 OP can be thrown with no return with any more posts.