To be angry with people who describe the old age pension as a "benefit"?

[FlubandSlub]

When I started my working life, aged 16, I entered into an agreement with the government for them to save my pension money for me. It was stated that it would be until I turned 60 which would be when I could starting drawing my old age pension. Even though I made my FULL pension payment contributions by the time I turned 51 the government has decided it will not abide by the original agreement and that it is going to keep MY money until I am 67. Probably hoping I will die before then.

Consider this, not only did I contribute to my pension, my employer did too. It totalled 15% of my income before taxes. If you averaged only £15 000 p a. over your working life, that's close to £220,500. Read that again. Did you see anywhere that the Government paid in one single penny?

We are talking about the money that I and my employer put in a Government bank to ensure that I would have a retirement pension. It was not money that the Government had any right to spend on other things! Upon reaching the age to take it back they've started to call the money we paid in a "benefit" !

If you calculate the future invested value of £2500 per year (yours & your employer's contribution) at a simple 5% interest (that's less than what the govtpays on the money that it borrows from overseas), after 49 years of working you'd have
£892,919.98.

This money was supposed to be in a securely locked box, not to be used as part of the Government's general funds.
Successive governments borrowed the money to spend on other things but that doesn't make my pension some kind of charity or handout!! If a private pension company did this we would sue them. Unfortunately the Government can legally rob us blind and get away with it

IT'S MY MONEY! IT IS NOT A BENEFIT!!

You get to a point where your reduced spending reduces your productivity. Leading to .... increased taxes and reduced spending.

The OP clearly doesn't understand how the state pension works.
However, despite that, as a pensioner I do dislike my state pension being described as a 'benefit' as it isn't like other benefit payments either.

Apropos of fuck all, has anyone crunched the data on the overall effect of the 2007 smoking ban ? Reduced revenue from tobacco versus increased costs of pensions ? I'm sure AI could do it in a trice.

I'm pretty sure a lot of middle aged and younger people have already figured this out. The current Labour government are going to catch the major economic down turn ball before long, that has been inevitable for so long. No wonder the Tories were desperate not to get voted in! If anyone thinks Farage is coming in as the knight on the white charger, they are very mistaken.

Government spending does improve the GDP numbers so they would look worse. I guess it depends on where the cuts are made to some extent. I do think that cuts will be forced at some point. There is no way the entitled electorate are going to vote for them.

You do actually reach a stage where every cut is effectively shrinking future tax take until you fade to nothing.

It's like dieting until you haven't the strength to work to buy food. Eventually it's endsville.

What you really should have done is borrowed a few quid. Carbed up. Done a days work. Paid the loan back and bought some food.

Since people like simple explanations.

I'm not convinced about that but let's say you are 100% correct.
The third option, which I think you are suggesting in your analogy, is to borrow more money. The difficulty with that option is that it is starting to reach its limits as the longer dates gilt yields keep rising. The market is losing faith that the UK will be able to repay its debts. Personally, I can't see any way out for the UK at this stage. People will need to get used to a reduced standard of living over the years.

@rainingsnoring totally agree- the Tory’s knew they were screwed after Brexit - never mind Covid!! even Johnson who I don’t think is the brightest economist out there was heard to pronounce ‘we are screwed’ when he knew the result . The country essentially voted for less investment of any significant size and a big defecit annually all in the name of sovereignity , which doesn’t create many jobs, fund regions or pay bills - I will grant that it does allow you to subsidise certain industry’s, but rather pointless when the income isn’t there

Interesting when the "household budget" analogy is used by the little people, it;s flawed, but when we are told it's the way by the government, it's holy text.

The one thing missing from all the bollocks I posted is the fact that unlike you or me, the government can actually - litrally - print money. Which rather changes the dynamic.

You make sweeping generalisations regarding older people and your attitude is unpleasant.

You need to get out more and meet a cross section of society.

I know plenty of under 45s who do not have your prejudices and through hard work are financially successful. On the flipside, I know over 70s who are just about surviving.

as a pensioner I do dislike my state pension being described as a 'benefit' as it isn't like other benefit payments either.

It's harder to demonize the recipients of other state benefits when you receive £12k pa in benefits from the taxpayer, eh?

Lol at the idea that scrapping the triple lock is low hanging fruit! Have you seen the front page of the Express/DM/Telegraph of there is even a sniff of the triple lock being revised?

It's not a benefit when you have worked 50 years to earn it!

Yes. It. Is.

You may not like it, but it is a benefit. Just because you don't like the name of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist

I thought she was trying to say it wasn't a benefit as that suggested it was a handout and she'd earned it.

Where it does become a benefit is when you get pension credits if you've never worked

I dont think it matters though. People trying to make the distinction sound to me like that claiming benefits is something to be ashamed of. It isnt.

I thought she was trying to say it wasn't a benefit as that suggested it was a handout

That's exactly what she's saying, and the fact that the state pension is a benefit inconveniently goes against the narrative that benefits are all "handouts" (with the implication that they are not "earned" abd so undeserved).

I wonder what %age of pensioners end up claiming more than they paid in (you need to bump it up to account for inflation).

I'd bet it's more than half.

My DM worked 6 years and then was a SAHM until she got her pension at 60 and lived to be 79.

E2A: Of course the moment you exceed that point, then you are "on benefits".

One thing is certain, the OP isn't coming back.😅🤣

It’s a tax like any other tax. It paid for your parents’ pensions.

kids now will pay for yours.

It's much more than half - very few people are net contributors. The amount of NI contributions paid by the average person bears no resemblance to the amount of the state pension. The figures are mind-blowing.

Another wind them up thread?

It does! If you become disabled after pension age you can claim Attendance Allowance.