Is The IMF taking Over perhaps just what the country needs

[WaitingInForMyFoodShopping]

Ok bear with me. This sounds like an idiotic thing to say because if the IMF are involved it means the country is officially in a mess and the IMF will slash spending and enforce their own budgets and rules. So anyone on benefits might lose them, NHS funding will likely go down, same for the police force etc

It just occurred to me today that the country is in a complete mess and there isn't really any end in sight.

Headlines today - I didn't read the detail but I am just getting more angry, helpless feeling and frustrated and want 'somebody' who has some balls to step in and say enough. Things change from today. Todays headlines are rising taxes, 1/10 high school kids on benefits, families of migrants can claim benefits from day 1 even if they don't speak english.

Now i will caveat this by saying the housing market does need sorted but lets be honest that's not what they are trying to do here - it's just about raising taxes. I also say there is another articles claiming ' a crackdown on bring families into Britain' - something that made me snort with derision giving the whole small boats/protests going on just now.

I mean lets just get to the point. Does ANYONE think RR/KS are able to fix this mess. I know they didn't cause it. I know they have been in office less than a year but if we give them another year are they able to fix it. I personally don't think so. It is going to need someone very tough to brave the mess and take it in hand (Maggie Thatcher where are you now).
So what are we left with - voting Reform - which I have joked about doing but i don't actually think that is the way to go. That's borne out of desperation. So who is going to fix it then.

AIBU to think a complete reset, painful as it will be by the IMF is just what the country needs?

House prices drop unexpectedly amid property tax fears - latest updates

The ‘ludicrous’ migrant family rule pushing councils to breaking point

One in 10 secondary schoolchildren on disability benefits

And I'd just like to add I know I will 'suffer' if this happens and i still think it might be the best thing for us.

I'm not on any benefits but I'll be affected by pension age getting raised which it almost certainly will.

I can't get a doctors appointment and this is unlikely to get better.

So I just thought I'd add that in to the post before the backlash of complaining about benefits being cut etc.

I honestly just don't think RR/KS are ABLE/competent/have the skills to be able to fix it.

The IMF will not become involved at all, indeed only became so in the 1970s because of poor economic forecasting.

A change of chancellor at some point may happen though.

Maybe expanding your reading beyond one newspaper (which hates the Labour party and always has) might help your anxiety?

I read this slowly and carefully @WaitingInForMyFoodShopping

Then I read it again...

Honestly, what in the name of GCSE economics is this all about?

I heard that the IMF are going to invade and that the pound will be scrapped and the new currency will be an St. Georges flag for £5 and a Union jack flag for £10. Change will be issued in vape cartridges.

Then I changed channel.

Forgive me that sounded a bit dismissive or inadvertently rude.

I just struggle with posts where the person is saying an extreme position ("the IMF should take over!") when all that is happening is difficult economic choices due to years of incompetent and self serving government.

Many people in the UK have lived very comfortably for decades, insulated by rising house prices and cheap credit.

I'm sad for those people that the envelope is getting stretched a bit now. But no one said it would be a straight line of inexorable growth. Hard times are being felt all over the global North. We're not basket cases who need the IMF for goodness sake.

How can you be so sure?

I mean it was in last weekends telegraph that we are heading for an IMF bailout.

Rachel Reeves ‘heading towards 70s-style IMF bailout’

Obviously that doesn't mean it will happen but by all accounts (and I've watched quite a few things on the topic recently) we are in a really bad place or as politicians like to call it almost in 'the doom loop'

I think a new chancellor would be really sensible and I think KS should do that sooner than later. This autumns budget will be critical.

I mean how does a country that has to borrow more to repay it's interest on current debt get out of this downward spiral.

If you have ever had a credit card where you just paid the interest and were struggling to repay the capital you will know this is a very bad place to be. The UK is worse than that as we can't even afford to pay the interest on our current debt without borrowing more.

Less assume we get a better chancellor with more balls and more skills to tackle it. How are they going to do it?

I’m not sure slashing spending is what the country needs, too much austerity (to the point where basic services have stopped working and made everything LESS efficient) is a large part of what got us into this mess.

If you’re just reading the telegraph you’re going to get a very one-sided point of view. Same as if you just read the guardian or whatever.

What in your day-to-day life is terrible? How do you think the IMF getting involved would improve your life and the lives of others in a material way?

Your post only gives a way your life would get worse - higher pension age. What improvement would you want to see in exchange for taking that hit?

Sorry meant to add yes you may well be right about the poor economic forecasting in the seventies but isn't that happening all over again?

I mean the debt has increased greatly in the last year so surely that is poor economic forecasting at it's finest?

Sorry don't mean to be arguementative but is todays situation not quite similar?

Farage and the like are trying to give the impression that we're in chaos or an emergency situation, like Trump. It's all bollocks.

I mean obviously something needs to be done, we are skint as a country. Apparently 1 in 3 pounds of government spending goes to NHS for a service that’s failing. Social care costs are bankrupting councils. 1 in 10 pounds goes to just servicing our debt?

I know people talk about the boats but it’s a drop in the ocean cost wise. I think actually the biggest costs are pensioners, they take more than half the budget of the DWP over 140 billion currently and forecast to rise exponentially over next few years. NHS spending rises sharply per person once over 50 with 2/5 of budget for 65+ so will go up with aging population. Plus a decent chunk of social care costs.

Immigration and small boats are a bit of a scapegoat for a system that needs fundamental reform. If I were to consider it objectively I’d say it starts with the NHS and possibly curtailing spending on an individual level. An annual limit on treatment of for example 10* the average per person spend per year. It would predominantly impact the disabled (adults and children) , the elderly and those unlucky enough to have expensive conditions, accidents or illnesses .

It’s obviously ethically challenging to consider but Is there a point in time coming that spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on any one individual becomes untenable? In times where there was less scarcity of resources and in an ideal world everyone should get what they need. Obviously that doesn’t happen currently, it’s not evenly applied. It feels like a postcode lottery, can you get a Gp sppoinment, will they refer, what is the wait list, decent consultant? If everything lines up then you can be lucky enough to enjoy top-notch healthcare. That said how many elderly people die on the floor waiting for an ambulance, or on a trolley in A&E waiting for treatment whilst others have prolonged hospital stays with expensive treatments.

Poor countries tend to concentrate medical spending on working age adults to keep them productive. Is there a tipping point where we will have to start spending like we are a poor country? Never going to be introduced by any politician but I suspect if we were ever to have IMF involvement then cutting down NHS spending would be a top priority.

Poor economic forecasting you say…

You should read The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast before you start advocating for IMF involvement in UK economic affairs. Published in 2003 but describes how the IMF work and how their "conditionalities" make life a misery for ordinary citizens but they impose them anyway knowing it will cause civil unrest. If being unable to heat your home and cars burning in the street appeals to you then by all means campaign for that.

Goodness i wish I had your optimism. You are asking what do we want to take the hit. I don't think the country would get a choice.

The IMF having to step in to help us means we cannot run our own country (which lets be honest does appear to be the case giving the huge increase in debt over the last year and total lack of growth). They will 'bail' us out and will impose conditions - one of which would be raising pension age.

The way the country is being run just now is literally not sustainable.

We are borrowing each month to pay the interest on our current debt. So that's like you have a credit card and can't even afford to make the minimum payment without borrowing more.

My life is not any worse than anyone else. Indeed it may well be better than alot. House bought and paid for, retired at 51, substantial savings. Moderate pensions but enough to see me to state pension age. No children so planning equity release on house to top up state pension. Can afford a private GP but shocked it is coming to this (can't get a gp appointment at my surgery).

Despite the fact the police don't attend shoplifting etc, ambulances take hours to show up, can't get GP appointment etc etc, the country is still going further into debt each month.

I just feel we need a strong ballsy person or organisation to say enough.

I do read other newspapers and I watch alot of economic stuff as well so I believe I am getting the views of many not just the telegraph.

I mean the UK got bailed out in the seventies by the IMF. Why is not possible to happen again?

@Tiredofwhataboutery “I’d say it starts with the NHS and possibly curtailing spending on an individual level. An annual limit on treatment of for example 10* the average per person spend per year. It would predominantly impact the disabled (adults and children) , the elderly and those unlucky enough to have expensive conditions, accidents or illnesses”

Just to check you fully understand you’re advocating just letting disabled and seriously ill people die from preventable causes yes?

So your 4-year-old gets leukaemia and you’re quite content to just watch them die a slow and horrible death yes?

Or is this rule just for other people?

I read lots of papers thanks and also watch lots of economic podcasts/documentaries. (retired in my fifties so lots of spare time).

My anxiety (or not) has got absolutely nothing to do with a country that is increasing it's debt every month because it cannot pay the interest on it's current debt.

I know people talk about the boats but it’s a drop in the ocean cost wise.

I see what you did there 😀

I honestly don't understand why people are confused.

It is getting reported on alot just now.

Each month the UK borrows more to pay the interest on it's current debt. Thus increasing it's debt further. This is not sustainable.

I'm actually a retired finance person (degree and professional qualification) who retired in her early fifties so a little bit past GCSE thanks

Which channel is the telegraph newspaper on?

Are you even aware that the IMF DID bailout the UK in the seventies.

Like it really happened in real life. Either you are not well informed at all or very young.

By all accounts things are worse now than they were in the seventies but you are right, it's a laughable topic. Till it's not.

Are you even aware that the IMF DID bailout the UK in the seventies.

I was there. Which is why this is all a load of tosh.

Yes in an ideal world we need more police, more GP's, more everything really.

I agree services have been slashed which is why there is so much unrest just now (alongside the fact we continue to let more people in when there are not enough resources for the ones already here).

Despite the fact everything has been cut to the bone, our debt is going up each month to the extent we have to borrow more to finance the current debt.

So how do we keep paying if we are getting further into debt each month.

Many think taxation is now at the maximum that can be borne by the country.

So if services are slashed and taxes are maxed out how do we get out of the loop of not being able to finance our current debt without borrowing more.

There is only 3 choices.
Cut spending more
Increase taxes more
Increase growth which is obviously what they need to do but don't seem capable of.

Okay please tell me how you think the country will get out of this loop of not being able to finance it's current debt without borrowing more each month.

I'm even more surprised that you are aware of the 70's bailout and still hold the view that it is 'tosh'

I wish it was. However by everything I have read and watched we are actually in a worse position now. Our wealth has been built on a ponzi scheme of house prices to give people the illusion of wealth. Our industries are gone and we seem incapable of any real growth beyond 'oh look house prices are up another 10%'

Several very informed economists have stated we are actually in a worse position that the 70's.

I understand not wanting to think about it because it's horrible and scary but that is just how things get worse and worse.

If you have real reasons why you think the country can recover please do share them on this thread. I am always interested to hear more points of view (yes I am retired with too much time!)

Obviously growth is the only way out of this mess but it does not appear our goverment has the skills to do this.

You retired in your fifties? So you're one of the economically inactive people who are part of the problem?

Tell you what.

I'll live my life. You live yours. Let's see what plays out. One thing I can guarantee is that the owners of the Telegraph will not be found sitting outside a main railway station with a hat and a sign that says "Will stir shit up for food" anytime soon.

I can see a some folk with a sign saying "Will tell you how wonderful "AI" is for food", but that is a different kettle of frogs.