Is The IMF taking Over perhaps just what the country needs

[WaitingInForMyFoodShopping]

Ok bear with me. This sounds like an idiotic thing to say because if the IMF are involved it means the country is officially in a mess and the IMF will slash spending and enforce their own budgets and rules. So anyone on benefits might lose them, NHS funding will likely go down, same for the police force etc

It just occurred to me today that the country is in a complete mess and there isn't really any end in sight.

Headlines today - I didn't read the detail but I am just getting more angry, helpless feeling and frustrated and want 'somebody' who has some balls to step in and say enough. Things change from today. Todays headlines are rising taxes, 1/10 high school kids on benefits, families of migrants can claim benefits from day 1 even if they don't speak english.

Now i will caveat this by saying the housing market does need sorted but lets be honest that's not what they are trying to do here - it's just about raising taxes. I also say there is another articles claiming ' a crackdown on bring families into Britain' - something that made me snort with derision giving the whole small boats/protests going on just now.

I mean lets just get to the point. Does ANYONE think RR/KS are able to fix this mess. I know they didn't cause it. I know they have been in office less than a year but if we give them another year are they able to fix it. I personally don't think so. It is going to need someone very tough to brave the mess and take it in hand (Maggie Thatcher where are you now).
So what are we left with - voting Reform - which I have joked about doing but i don't actually think that is the way to go. That's borne out of desperation. So who is going to fix it then.

AIBU to think a complete reset, painful as it will be by the IMF is just what the country needs?

House prices drop unexpectedly amid property tax fears - latest updates

The ‘ludicrous’ migrant family rule pushing councils to breaking point

One in 10 secondary schoolchildren on disability benefits

They could start with Angela Raynor

read my post about my own mental health struggles. I am not trying to upset you. I know what it is like.

All I am asking is if there was no welfare state we would all have to adapt and survive.

I mean we did it for hundreds of years before the welfare state.

So I was just asking if there was a mid point we could return to between then ie nothing and now ie unaffordable.

I mean we have a huge debt to repay so we really can't afford the current welfare state can we.

If I had no job/food/house I sure as hell would go to a get back on your feet hotel rather than sleep on the street.

Okay just forget I said anything. How will the govt cut the benefit bill if nobody is prepared to do without.

people with depression etc used to get locked up in loony bins and it wasn't that long ago.

Not saying we should go back to that. It's just your expressed complete horror at the idea but it really wasn't that long ago they did this.

Like 100 years ago they did it. So my granny's time.

BUt most people who end up disabled or unemployed are in housing. Some own their house. Why should they be removed from them to go into these hostels you are on about? What if they have children or live with a partner or spouse?
They need benefits to pay the bills and put food on the table. Not everyone needs help with housing.

I read your post and it has come across as you managed to cope and work so why cant other people. Stop punching down. It is not a good look.

I have spent a lot of my life in loony bins as you put it.

I don't read the daily mail. I read the telegraph.

I don't really watch Farage but I know about his deportation of immigrants policy and that lots of people are now considering voting for him.

All I'm saying is there used to be NO welfare system at all and it only like 80 years ago when it started. So nothing is one extreme. The current unaffordable system is the other extreme. Is there a middle point.

Also if the IMF bail us out is it possible they could scrap our welfare system? I mean lots of countries do not have a welfare system.

This would affect me hugely if there was no state pension to get for example. I would have to adapt and survive wouldn't I. (take in lodgers, sell my house and live in a bedsit, work till I died.....you get the idea). It wouldn't be pretty but tough shit I would have to make the best of it wouldn't I

I'm not talking about inpatient mental hospitals of today - I'm talking about asylumns ie Bedlam that they used to lock people up in. From the independent newspaper:

The last asylum in the UK closed in 1993. This marked the end of a significant era in mental health care, as many asylums were replaced by community-based psychiatric services.

1993 was not very long ago.

Unless of course you mean you were actually in places like this.

No but my great grandad on my dads side was. He died there.

But why do you think something even remotely similar would be suitable for people who are unemployed. Why do they need to be removed form their home and put up in these hostel things?
And for disabled people. A lot would need carers too. How would that work?

A big barrier to employment for disabled people is employers. A lot of disabled people do want to work but they dont get the chance to because they are seen as too risky.

Okay so if the IMF come in and say sorry your welfare state has to go. It ends today. You have to repay this massive billions of pound debt hole instead.

So state pension, all unemployed, sick benefits gone.

I mean that is how it used to be. Nothing at all.

What would you do? How did people used to survive before the welfare state was created.

So that's it your on your own - no money from the goverment in any form.

What would you do.

I mean I'm pretty sure the IMF if they get involved are going to take a very sharp sword to the welfare benefit system and yes it might even chop pensions.

Like the UK has NO MONEY. Like None. Just this huge debt.

So people saying how dare you I need the goverment to pay my rent and give me money for all my bills so I can live with my partner etc might just become a thing of the past.

I mean people used to just sleep on the streets or go to the workhouse or be taken in by family (and yes that is the other extreme and I am not suggesting we go back to this).

The current system is literally unaffordable.

It wont be chopped overnight and frankly you are scaremongering if you are saying it might happen. This is something I am very worried about.

I said it would be suicide or prison for me.

Utter and complete scaremongering. Look at other countries that have had IMF bailouts and look at what happened here in the 70s. We’re a long way from going to them cap in hand anyway.

Okay so if the IMF come in and say sorry your welfare state has to go. It ends today. You have to repay this massive billions of pound debt hole instead

So state pension, all unemployed, sick benefits gone

I can confidently predict that I have more chance of winning the Euromillions than this happening.

sorry not trying to scare you. It would affect me greatly to lose my state pension.

Sadly this is actually the state the country is in and I really do think benefits will get changed. I don't know if that means half or 20 percent less or what but they literally cannot afford them the way they are.

So no matter how awful it is - we all need to adapt and survive.

Would you not rather be forewarned and have time to prepare?

It is scary for sure. Is it scaremongering though if it is a possible outcome?

Now there it talk that France will need the IMF bailout first and if that happens there won't be enough to help the UK as well.

My very sensible neighbour who has never given me any reason to think he was mad or weird in any way told me yesterday he is filling up his garage with food/supplies because he thinks marshall law could end up being implemented after this big protest/rally next weekend that over a million people are supposed to be going to.

I was shocked, horrified, disbelieving. You know what i did today. Did a shop at Tesco and another at waitrose with tinned and long life food. There were lots of items out of stock so I needed to go to two shops.

Is that a crazy over reaction. Quite probably. However if my neighbour is stockpiling then who else is doing it.

If nothing else I have food at todays prices and will save some money. If we are all under curfew by next weekend then I'll avoid the panic shopping.

I understand our position is worse than the seventies when we got help before from the IMF.

Anyway if France gets bailed out first (which is looking increasingly likely) there may not be help left for us from the IMF.

So I am not sure what happens after that.

How can i prepare? I can not make my disabilities vanish.

Prepare by not supporting a party that legislates against the section of society who pays for everything, the fewer they are in number the worse things get.

A clever attempt at putting it out there we are about to go to the IMF.....

...which we are not!

We were in a deep recession then, tax rates way above what we have now, as of now, we are not, nor predicted to be, in positive growth.

This country is still very wealthy.

Long-term borrowing costs ease
Britain’s long-term borrowing costs have edged slightly lower to 5.58pc this morning as nerves in the bond market ease.
The interest rate on UK long-term borrowing rose to 5.75pc on Wednesday, before dropping back to close at 5.6pc.
Kathleen Brooks, research director at XTB, said: “There are signs that the bond market rout could be over … Some governments including the UK’s are talking once more about public sector spending cuts, which may boost demand for Gilts in the short term.”

Todays telegraph above

Bond interest rates fall slightly which is good - but they are falling because the UK goverment is talking once more about public spending cuts.

Our country is definately not wealthy. However I have to admire your optimism that you still think so. I used to think so to.

There are certainly some individuals who are very wealthy (although many of them are leaving I understand).

The rest of the country has had falling standards of living for years now. Wages are going up more slowly than the cost of everything else.

Meanwhile public services have all been erroded - ambulances, police shortages, lack GP's etc

In the last year our debt has rose by a huge amount. This might be okay if it was because we were investing in things that would generate income. However we are increasing borrowing to pay 'the day to day bills'

No we are not imminent to go to the IMF but it is a possibility but France will be first. The next 3 months to the budget is crucial.

Why do think KS is moving staff about, talking about cutting benefits again

Bond rates have dropped today (telegraph) to reflect the fact KS (and other goverments) and again talking about cutting benefits.

Yes I know it is not that easy.

So for me for example with my complex trauma I am having to go for therapy and take 60mg of prozac a day. Neither one is fun.
I cry alot but for me I am hoping it is the road to recovery.

I don't know enough about your condition but is there anything you can do to improve / help it.

Secondly can you start to think how you would generate income if you had to. Can you let a bedroom, get a part-time job, cut some of your costs.

I am living on savings just now (no benefits) but I think about what I will do when I am better. Will I go back to work or just stay 'retired' until I get my first private pension. I look at jobs in care homes and try to imagine if I could do them. I think about setting up a small dog walking business.

If the state pension stays I will probably not go back to work as I am fully paid up there and have enough money to last till then.

if there is going to be no state pension or much reduced I may have to go back to work part-time for another 5 years to give myself an increased nest egg.

I also think I could downsize my house, let rooms etc.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Good advice although this sounds like a step too far, so many have bought into the we must bring people down. It won’t help.

I agree with what you say but what party do you mean. Do you mean we should vote Tory again as they were always the party to support the wealthy?

Of course we are wealthy, we've a £2.6 trillion economy, no6 in the world, wages are out stripping inflation - higher tax receipts, growth is among the highest in G7.

We tax less than most EU countries too.

Do benefits need reform? yes but only by a little, perhaps 5 or 6 billion per year - however if Labour do this, it will be "Labour hate the disabled" from the right wing...just as they got it in the neck for WFA or changes to IHT.

I'd also like to see changes in unearned income tax rates, cash ISA's limited to a max holding of 100k and higher rate CT changed for expensive houses.

As for going back in time, no, people died in poverty and of treatable illnesses purely because they had no money, though people like Jenrick do support this.

@Alexandra2001

Size of the economy is misleading, otherwise you could argue that because the Indian economy is bigger than the UK's then Indians are richer than Brits. A much better comparison would be GDP per capita , which based on your previous posts you are clearly smart enough to know.

On GDP per capita the UK ranks around 18th to 20th in the world (depending if you use IMF orWorld Bank figures ) but consistently below Germany and above France.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

The problem is that the UK economy is in much greater decline in comparison to say other G7 countries, experiencing significant lower growth:

https://fullfact.org/economy/gdp-growth-international-comparisons/

Also in a recent survey 68% of the public thought that the UK economic situation would be worse in a year's time than it is today.

The problem is then that economically the UK is in decline but that voters still expect the level of public services, public sector salaries and state benefits that they enjoyed when the economy was in a much stronger position. To do this the Government runs a deficit of around £130 billion a year (adding to the national debt of £2.9 trillion) which in today's Government bond markets (debt markets) is becoming harder and much more expensive to borrow from.

The Government currently pays £112 billion per year on just the interest for the national debt. Around the same as the entire UK education budget of £119 billion.

This is clearly not sustainable and we are now seeing the economic cracks appear.