Is The IMF taking Over perhaps just what the country needs

[WaitingInForMyFoodShopping]

Ok bear with me. This sounds like an idiotic thing to say because if the IMF are involved it means the country is officially in a mess and the IMF will slash spending and enforce their own budgets and rules. So anyone on benefits might lose them, NHS funding will likely go down, same for the police force etc

It just occurred to me today that the country is in a complete mess and there isn't really any end in sight.

Headlines today - I didn't read the detail but I am just getting more angry, helpless feeling and frustrated and want 'somebody' who has some balls to step in and say enough. Things change from today. Todays headlines are rising taxes, 1/10 high school kids on benefits, families of migrants can claim benefits from day 1 even if they don't speak english.

Now i will caveat this by saying the housing market does need sorted but lets be honest that's not what they are trying to do here - it's just about raising taxes. I also say there is another articles claiming ' a crackdown on bring families into Britain' - something that made me snort with derision giving the whole small boats/protests going on just now.

I mean lets just get to the point. Does ANYONE think RR/KS are able to fix this mess. I know they didn't cause it. I know they have been in office less than a year but if we give them another year are they able to fix it. I personally don't think so. It is going to need someone very tough to brave the mess and take it in hand (Maggie Thatcher where are you now).
So what are we left with - voting Reform - which I have joked about doing but i don't actually think that is the way to go. That's borne out of desperation. So who is going to fix it then.

AIBU to think a complete reset, painful as it will be by the IMF is just what the country needs?

House prices drop unexpectedly amid property tax fears - latest updates

The ‘ludicrous’ migrant family rule pushing councils to breaking point

One in 10 secondary schoolchildren on disability benefits

I think you mean it's frightening and you'd rather just ignore the problem.

I understand. I feel the same.

Nobody who has lost their job and can't pay their mortgage wants to deal with the problem. They would rather run away, hide and deny it till they get repossessed. Unfortunately this does not make the problem go away even if it is 'boring'

It's very scary. You are right to be scared but hiding behind flip comments isn't going to address anything.

History repeats itself generally. Whether it is on a timespan of 10, 100 or 500 years is hard to know.

People always say "it can't happen again" until it does. It's worth remembering the average lifespan of a fiat currency in the world is about 40 years.

A sensible person always hedges themselves against things like currency collapse happening, but few take the time to do it.

In a currency collapse, it is always the middle class and older people that lose the most. Basically the poor cannot lose wealth because they have none to start with. The rich have their own methods of preserving wealth. The young generally have less wealth to lose, and a lifetime to recover it in the new environment.

It's instructive to read history, like for example what happened in Weimar Germany and learn from what happened in that event, which is also quite interesting if you are interested in history as well.

families of migrants can claim benefits from day 1 even if they don't speak english.

It might be galling, and things need sorting out, but they can’t be left to starve or steal. Asylum seekers get a pittance. They rely on food banks and charity as it is and are not allowed to work. Other migrants are allowed here to do essential work.

The country is already about at the max level they can cope with taxes and the goverment does not seem able to cut spending (which is not ideal anyway given how services are all slashed already).

Billions of £s is lost every year in tax evasion/avoidance/fraud. Let's go after that first before we pull the plug on disabled children.

Farage isn't the answer to the countries problems.

Lots of people are latching onto him and the immigration as a scapegoat because it is less scary to think 'Nig will fix it, chuck the immigrants out and all will be fine again'

Now is letting more people in and spending more money on hotels etc helping the problem. No it is not. However it is just part of the 'we are spending too much for the income we generate' problem.

Sadly we are in a bad position. We are a country who cannot pay it's debt without borrowing more each month.

Unless we do something (cut spending, increase income and growth, refinance debt) it will be an 'emergency' situation in so far as benefits will have to be slashed, private healthcare will be all that's available etc

I think I'd probably tax wealth a bit more, including maybe the pensions of those who've left work at 51, before I condemned children to death through lack of money.

But that's just me. To the OP dead kids are just a bit unfortunate.

We can get a GP appointment the same day in our small town with only one GP practice.

That you cannot, OP, doesn't mean we need the IMF to wade in.

yes there are lots of problems that all contribute to the same thing - we are a country that can not afford it's debt without borrowing more.

So yes there are lots of ways you can in theory raise income (create growth, raise taxes, chase down benefit fraud, cut tax evasion)

However these are all things that take time and money and meanwhile the black hole is getting bigger each month to the point that many serious economists think the country will need bailed out by the IMF.

If this happens we will be forced (no choice) as part of our survival as a country to cut spending and do other things to return us to sustainability. Which means not spending beyond our means each month and also chipping away at the debt so we are climbing out of the hole.

This is why we are in a scary position because the things lots of people rely on will have to be cut literally to ensure our survival.

I'm already budgeting for the future which takes into account the fact I will likely need to pay for GP and hospital treatment (like they did prior to the NHS). I probably won't be able to afford another dog when my current one goes as he costs a fortune and instead the money for him will have to pay my medical bills.

If the purse is empty, it does not matter how tragic the child's illness is. I mean what do traditional poor countries do when all their children are dying because they can't afford vacinations or food etc. They ask for help/charity and if that does not work, the children die.

I think you are falling prey to the doomster mood.

the U.K. is not in a particularly bad position as a country. Covid plus the rise in energy prices have hit all countries very hard.

france and Germany in particular are also in trouble.

the reason this feels a bit like an echo of the 1970s is because the 1970s also had energy prices rise (the oil price shock) which prompts a readjustment in the economy, and inflation.

Britain is not at serious risk of hyperinflation. The Bank of England watch inflation rates very carefully and while they do balance the measures they take against other targets there is absolutely zero chance this or any other government would allow it to happen.

An emergency situation is going to the IMF for a loan, not cutting welfare.

If you're fool enough to believe what you read in the Telegraph you deserve all you get.

I was in my late 20s at the last IMF bail-out. Being boomers, we survived.

I'm glad you can get a GP appointment. I used to be able to before I moved house. However you cannot deny the mess the NHS is in and the chaos that A&E has become.

Nobody has said that a GP shortage means IMF bailout.

What we have said is expenditure is outstripping income each month plunging us further into debt.

Somebody on here kindly enlighted me as to the GP shortage a few days ago. I thought our GP's was leaving the country for a better life for themselves. This is not the case it seems. They are not funding GP positions. So as the old ones retire they are not replacing them. Just because this has not hit your surgery yet does not mean it's not in the pipeline. They are phasing out the NHS already you just haven't noticed yet.

People who can't get a gp appointment and are realising their choice is private GP appointment or nothing are just further down the loop than you in awareness of the state of the country.

Enjoy your 'ignorance is bliss' while you still have it. Believe you me I remember when you could get a doctors appointment with no trouble and it was bliss. I just didn't realise it at the time.

Quite. Cutting welfare just needs to happen. The current government know this, they promised it, and now don't have the backbone to deliver. Everyone thinks their handouts shouldn't be cut. We have got ourselves into a ridiculous position.

Isn't that a really silly comment?

Of course we will 'survive' - if we need the bailout we will get the bailout and life will go on. Just with a higher retirement age, no NHS probably and benefits cut.

We have seen huge dole queues in the past and we 'survived'. We have seen lots of people lose their homes during the late eighties/early nineties and we 'survived' - people were just very poor and had a very poor standard of living. Houses were cold, food was poor and scarce and treats were unheard of.

Who said we would not 'survive' I said we are in a bloody mess and somebody taking over who can make brave decisions (ie the IMF) might not be the worst thing that could happen if it puts us back on the path to sustainability.

Oh and of course I read/watch alot more than the telegraph. In fact I've been doing that alot recently which is why I have come to realise how bad things have silently become.

We are literally (as a country) living outwith our means.

I think most people take either the full on doomster position or the "it will be alright" position because they either don't want to consider the consequences or lack the knowledge/time/effort to prepare for it.

I think there is a reasonable halfway house between those two extreme positions.

I also think it is unlikely that the UK will enter hyperinflation, and the BOE has a good record of managing the currency in the best interest of the country and is quite clever in the way they manage the countries debt, in the way that you would hope they would be, despite politicians best efforts.

I think though that a different economic/taxation enviroment in the future such as moderate inflation (maybe 10% or higher) is definitely a possibility in the near future (in fact it wasn't far off that in the recent past) and significantly increased taxes on wealth are also a possibility and are probably sensible to at least think about.

We are nowhere near having the IMF needing to be involved. But even if we were, with the current state of US politics it’s not clear that the US, which is the largest contributor to the IMF I think, would countenance a loan. And, even if they did, with Trump at the helm the terms attached would be onerous to say the least! You can say goodbye to the NHS and hello to US tech steamrollering everything. Look how Starmer got stitched up over the supposedly ‘great’ trade deal!!

Although you can never really know till you’re in that situation I’d like to think I’m more of a Socrates type so would advocate for pulling the plug on myself.

I’m not saying disabled people don’t have value. I’m saying that if we have a finite budget then it doesn’t seem fair that one person can have 2.7 million pounds spent on gene therapy whilst however many die on a kitchen floor or by a roadside waiting for an ambulance due to budgetary constraints.

I think there should be a more balanced use of resources. It seems to me that the NHS is often in panic mode where they try and treat the worst stuff and sticky plaster the rest. Then on the other side, they are so slow to get people moving, there’s a woman who’s been in hospital for over a year, without ongoing medical need, because social care difficulties. I think a bed costs over £300 a day so that’s getting on for a million quid. I wonder if over the same time people have had to wait to be admitted and possibly suffered or died at the A&E of that hospital.

The IMF will impose conditions to return us to sustainability as a condition of bailing us out.

To return to a sustainable position we have to make our income more than expenditure so we can start paying off our debt instead of increasing it each month.

If we can't do this the only other option is to cut spending.

Nobody is coming to our aid without seeing a plan for how the country will be turned around.

An IMF bailout /overhaul of spending will likely be part of the same thing.

Ridiculous hyperbole. You really think that the 50% of families who get benefits would just let their kids die if they no longer got them. Of course they wouldn't they would reprioritise.

😂😂😂😂😂

Are we not?

We are increasing our debt each month. We cannot afford our current interest payments without borrowing.

That actually sounds like a country in big trouble to me. We have no industries, we have already sold our gold for bargain basement prices, we have little growth and debt payments are going up each month.

You have raised the point that we might not even get the loan. Well god help us then cos we will be at the mercy of private finance from China, Russia etc who will show no mercy.

I agree with you the NHS will likely disappear and USA style healthcare will be the norm.

Yes we are re your last line. And agree on the ‘surviving’ part.

Idk what would jolt out of that, maybe the bond market. It seems to be rather efficient at letting countries know when they’re overspending.

I believe even with France’s current economic woes we are higher than they are, haven’t checked recently though.

The U.K. has borrowed from the IMF on 11 occasions since the war.

as a founding and funding member it is absolutely entitled to do this.

https://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/tad/extarr2.aspx?memberKey1=1010&date1key=2025-04-30

the last loan in 1977 years was an overdraft type arrangement only half of which was used and all of which was repaid by 1979.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_sterling_crisis

national economies do not run like household economies. The fact that currently state income is lower than state expenditure is not “plunging” us into debt.

the British state has been consistently in debt since the days of Napoleon and debt is a very important part of the economic system of this country.

you are clearly not very well informed about economics. I would strongly recommend changing the telegraph for the Financial Times or taking a basic course in economics.

"I've driven boats up and down the canal. I know the rules of the waterway, so of course I could jump behind the wheel of an ocean going Sunseeker "

etc.

I agree that I don't think hyperinflation will happen. I do think it will get alot higher than it currently is though.

I think the BOE only have limited powers to fix the country and while of course they will try and balance inflation and interest rates, they are already struggling with what to do with rates.

Everyone thought rates were coming down but they have sort of stalled because inflation is higher than anticipated.

If they increase rates then lots of people get worse off and stop spending which hurts growth/economy even more.

This is why people are talking about the seventies and 'stagflation' - low growth, high inflation.