‘Lacks etiquette’ - wouldn’t say it about a man.

[Lackingetiquette]

Name change.

This phrase: ‘She lacks etiquette. She should not have done that to me.’ Said by a man, about a female colleague.

Would you find it sexist or think it had vaguely sexist connotations? Context is that a female colleague had to duck out of a 1-2-1 with a male colleague to take an emergency call. She said she’d be right back (both accept this) and then dialled off the call. She called him back two minutes later. I know it was an emergency. I manage both colleagues.

But, here is my AIBU. AIBU to think that a man would never say that phrase (that someone lacks etiquette) about a male member of staff? I would never say it about anyone, but I do for some reason find it particular offensive to be said about a woman. It reminds me slightly of ‘that woman was so rude. How dare she keep me, a man, waiting.’ Perhaps it was the delivery of the line, but it just feels off.

I’m very happy to be told IABU, but equally if people do see where I am coming from I’d welcome thoughts on how to raise this today in my next catchup with said person.

Possible sexism but not conclusive imo.

It’s possible that he thought if it was a ‘real’ emergency she wouldn’t have been able to come back. And it’s possible to infer from this a general view that women are too likely to have things in their lives that they prioritise “inappropriately” over work. I do think that would be sexist, but am aware I could well be adding 2+2 and making 10. I don’t think you can comment further on the evidence you have. I like the previous poster’s idea of asking him to explain how he would handle this.

At the same time I have also known colleagues who seem to share too much of the external stresses they are dealing with, when I think in general those details are more for your manager. I started work a long time before the ‘bring your whole self to work’ idea and to me it should be ‘bring your work self to work while you are there’. But crucially, it sounds like this is not the case in this interaction - more like a brief interruption rather than a blow by blow account of a relative’s issues.

If it was a man, he'd probably have said "He's a rude dick". Would that be considered sexist?

I don’t see etiquette as a gendered word in any way whatsoever. However, I would want to know what etiquette he is talking about - he needs to describe it in more detail. There are polite ways to deal with an emergency and rude ways so I would want to get to the bottom of what actually happened and who said what and when.

Thanks all. I’d be interested to know what the people who voted YANBU think, as a lot of posters seem to think it wasn’t sexist (or implied sexism).

For background, there is a history of this colleague making comments that come slightly close to being sexist, or making requests that he wouldn’t ask of a man, but nothing you could actually pin down as being sexist! It’s a tricky one to manage.

Sometimes in an emergency you can't respect the normal rules of etiquette.

If you manage them both, can't you just tell the man that it was a genuine emergency and you don't understand why he is making a mountain out of a molehill.

What are you going to do about it OP?

You can’t alter the way people think; you can only manage the impact. I’m sure you’re right that he’s viewing this through a sexist lens. Bouncing it back to him to understand how he thinks he would have managed it would help tbh to understand his thought processes so you can manage the likely outcomes. I suppose it might make him reflect… not very likely.

I suspected this might be the case. And I suspect he knows exactly where the line is between something he can be pinned down for, and sly insinuations with plausible deniability.

These guys always slip up in the end though. Keep an eye out for anything that has demonstrable practical impact on work flow or team morale.

Direct him to your company grievance procedure, which I m sure will request specifics of any complaint, not subjective etiquette barometers.

A man would as noted be described in blunt terms.

@gannett thanks, I have been keep an eye on morale which is mostly fine although it’s noticeable no one greets him in the office and he very often sits in a completely different room to the entire department!

I have also gently raised that his tone and choice of words has offended others. Of course, he’s adamant it’s all a mistake and he’s never meant to upset anyone.

Aaaah, the classic victim response (also common in children), "I didn't mean to upset/hurt anyone and now Im' the baddy and everyone is mean to me."

I have zero sympathy. The response to that is, "I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose. but the effect was the same. what can you do to modify your behaviour in the future."

Just like I tell my children when they're making these sorts of complaints - if I accidentally hit someone in my car, of course I didn't do it on purpose. But I made a mistake and I have to accept responsibility for it.

I don’t think etiquette is a gendered concept.

'She should not have done that to me.’

That would bother me more. Egotistical.

So he’s socially awkward doesn’t interact well with people, isolates himself ,has no empathy ,understanding or emotional insight with his communication skills
to me you’ve described someone on the spectrum rather than sexist

Do you know what he believes she should have done?

Yes, it’s condescending. He has a mild but noticeable superiority complex.
Impossible to comment on whether he applies it to all genders or not; one to watch though.

Well, I don’t know if a man would say it about a man or not.

But it sounds like he was being ridiculous and making a meal out of a non-issue.

No not sexist - just about manners?

The person who said it sounds really prissy. Someone who's a bit po faced generally, you get them in both sexes but more men in my experience.

The number of of times it's happened to me as an EA I've lost count of. These things happen.

I think maybe what has annoyed you is your colleague described ‘her’ (she lacks etiquette) rather than her behaviour ‘it was unprofessional’ (I don’t believe it was by the way). So it felt more personal between the colleagues than it should have done. Hopefully I’ve made some sense there!

Whilst I'm also irritated by the 'lacks etiquette' phrase (as I think it should be that she showed poor etiquette), it's the 'She should not have done that to me' that I think carries the sexist undertone. It suggests feeling personally affronted, rather than that someone has behaved rudely ,and the 'to me' implies he feels he in particular deserves better treatment. Either this is because of his individual godlike qualities or because he thinks he should be treated better as he is a man.

I’ve described men as lacking etiquette. It’s a polite way to describe them as slobs!

He was wrong and would have challenged him, but don’t have an issue with his wording and on the surface wouldn’t see it as gender specific.

I’ve heard men criticize male colleagues for having ‘terrible etiquette’ before for similar. I’ve also heard ‘he should not have done that to me’.

So no, I wouldn’t assume this was sexist.