‘Lacks etiquette’ - wouldn’t say it about a man.

[Lackingetiquette]

Name change.

This phrase: ‘She lacks etiquette. She should not have done that to me.’ Said by a man, about a female colleague.

Would you find it sexist or think it had vaguely sexist connotations? Context is that a female colleague had to duck out of a 1-2-1 with a male colleague to take an emergency call. She said she’d be right back (both accept this) and then dialled off the call. She called him back two minutes later. I know it was an emergency. I manage both colleagues.

But, here is my AIBU. AIBU to think that a man would never say that phrase (that someone lacks etiquette) about a male member of staff? I would never say it about anyone, but I do for some reason find it particular offensive to be said about a woman. It reminds me slightly of ‘that woman was so rude. How dare she keep me, a man, waiting.’ Perhaps it was the delivery of the line, but it just feels off.

I’m very happy to be told IABU, but equally if people do see where I am coming from I’d welcome thoughts on how to raise this today in my next catchup with said person.

I would, and have said that about men. Not just women. YABU.

Sorry - I think you are reading too much into a word. It's isn't a word I would use, and I also wouldn't have complained about someone's dealing with an emergency. But I also don't see that it is sexist. I might have responded that the emergency thing was a one-off and it's a bit unfair to complain about it. But IU also think the time for saying something has now gone and you make too much of it if you drag up the subject again.

If it happens again, then you deal with it immediately.

I am not entirely sure it's the phrasing that's the problem so much as his outrage that a (female) colleague had to briefly disappear to handle an emergency. I can't help but think that if a male colleague had had ot do that, he would have simply accepted it.

I also wonder what type of emergency - was it a childcare/personal issue? in which case, he's more likely to be more irritated (and also, it's more likely to happen to a woman because somehow, while working from home, men still manage to absent themselves from family needs and drama in a way that women can't....)

It doesn’t strike me as an old-fashioned phrase - I’ve never heard it, and I’m pretty old.
Someone lacking manners, OTOH….

IMO he was misusing the word ‘etiquette’ - probably doesn’t properly understand the meaning.

Etiquette is a system of behaviour. As Imentioned upthread he should have said lacked good etiquette or lacked manners.

I agree, it's complaining about the situation that's possibly sexist, not the phrase itself. Encourage him to be more flexible/understanding.

there is zero lack of etiquette in seeing an emergency (to you) come in, advise the person you are on a call with that you are going to duck out and then dial back in.

The sex of either protagonist is immaterial. The man in this scenario is completely in the wrong. (but i also agree that in general men don't have this said about them. Can we assume the emergency was not work related? Fancy a woman having to deal with that!)

I don't know. I think those terms would be used about anyone not acting professionally male or female. I definitely would

AIBU to think that a man would never say that phrase (that someone lacks etiquette) about a male member of staff?

YABU to extrapolate this man's choice of words into an "all men" situation.

"Lacks etiquette" is not a gendered criticism to me. The word choice is a little pompous, perhaps, but the actual criticism - that someone is ill-mannered and a bit unprofessional - is certainly levelled at men by men (and by women, and at women by women etc).

However you know this particular man and you will know better than us if he's shown any sexist tendencies. I don't think it's a sexist criticism in itself, but if a man has a history of thinking himself superior to female colleagues then yes, I would infer from this that he thinks her perceived unprofessionalism is worse because she's a woman and he's a man. But in that case, as his manager I would address the pattern rather than the specific criticism, which has a lot of plausible deniability.

Regarding the specific criticism the thing you can and should pull him up for is his lack of sympathy to a genuine emergency. Maybe he's not aware what the emergency reason was? If it's not private or sensitive I think he should be kept aware, but if it was private or sensitive you should be able to tell him you're satisfied it was a genuine emergency and his colleague didn't lack professional etiquette at all.

I agree. How many people under the age of 70 really understand 'etiquette' these days anyway? I bet he even wears short gloves with a T shirt...

Yes, that’s the thing that stood out to me. Don’t use the word if you can’t use it correctly. It’s a bit of a storm in a teacup though.

it wouldn’t occur to me as a gendered word though, not like the dreaded bossy.

I wasn't sure about this so I looked it up - etiquette is not just behaviour (ie a neutral term) it's a 'set of social rules and behaviours that guide how we conduct ourselves in polite society' (ie. etiquette is 'good' etiquette) so someone can lack etiquette (although it sounds odd to me to use the word in that context).

Agreed. Definitely not gendered. Class based if anything. Or just irritation.

No you can't "lack etiquette" on the basis (as you say) it's a system. You can however lack "good etiquette". Or have poor etiquette.

Perhaps a good one for Pedants Corner.

It sounds as though the context or interpretation seems sexist e.g. “a woman left a man waiting which is not how men should be treated by women” rather than the actual wording, which I would interpret as a posh way to say she was rude

The "bossy" discourse always annoyed me because I generally think bossiness is a horrible character trait in both men and women - the problem wasn't women being called out for it, but men NOT being called out for it. I have tried to do my bit by criticising men as "bossy" whenever I get the opportunity.

I've looked it up (because I thought it sounded odd) and it looks like you can lack etiquette.

ETA - my googling could be incorrect according to another poster!

It’s a really odd phrase for anyone to use about anyone. I think people conform to / understand the etiquette for a particular situation. They don’t ‘have’ etiquette. People have manners, knowledge, skills.

Have you asked male colleague to reflect on whether he has / displays empathy appropriately - and common sense?

Given the events you describe, what is his substantive complaint? Her actions appear to have been correct, polite and professional. What is he actually complaining about?

Can he set out what ‘the etiquette’ for taking an emergency call during a meeting is? Where that’s referenced in company literature / training / common practice?

ah, ok, when I googled it there are lots of examples of it being used in that way. But obviously they could be wrong (and I am not in a position to know either way!)

This

I have said that colleagues (male and female) lack professional courtesy or have behaved unprofessionally, both to their faces and to their managers in writing, if it's to try to get the managers to resolve an ongoing pattern.
But in this case it doesn't sound like the person did behave unprofessionally, if they are both managed by the same person, they should be on a more collegiate footing, and forgive a two-minute absence as something that just happens sometimes. Better that it happens with someone in the 'team' than in a client call, is my view.

From your OP, it's possible he used etiquette (incorrectly) when he really meant 'ladylike'/how women should behave with men, but don't even bother bringing it up with him because he has too much leeway to argue that that wasn't his intention!

Apart from anything else, it’s a misuse of the word “etiquette”. Etiquette is not something you have or don’t have. He could have said she lacks manners, or courtesy. But, so long as she excused herself politely, she didn’t! He sounds a l
plonker.

I don't think it is the use of the word but more the lack of understanding that another colleague is human that would piss me off. I would have a conversation with him that everyone will have the odd emergency that they need to deal with and all colleagues should be understanding towards each other as that is the workplace culture.

Did he mix up etiquette and ethic, as in criticism of her work ethic?

I wouldn’t see it as sexist, I have also seen men drop off calls for an emergency as often if not more often than women, but it’s hard to judge without knowing the people. If this was a one off I think it’s the hight of pettiness to complain to his boss and I’d be telling them so