To think a lot of people earning 6 figures aren’t actually that smart, just lucky?

[SnarkyDenimFox]

I’ve met plenty of high earners and honestly, a lot of them don’t seem any sharper than the rest of us. Right place, right time, right connections. AIBU to think it’s often luck, not talent?

Oh…he deffo doesn’t have the right connections

i am even rethinking the middle class bit 🤔

I totally agree with this.

I earn 6 figures and I worked very hard at school and university but I also had some luck when applying for jobs in that I inadvertently ended up in a high paid field without realising it (first in the family to go to uni so didn't have any family help or guidance.)

However, I was very persistent with those applications and treated it like a project. Same again when I was made redundant this year, I was job hunting 7 days a week, researching and learning for interviews. I also work 50+ hour weeks and spend 3 hours + commuting so some pure determination and hard work comes into it.

My dad was very tight with money and we lived frugally to the extent of being freezing cold. That gave me an inner fear of being poor so I've done everything in my power to prevent that for my kids. The downside is I don't get as much time with them as I'd like but I try to make it time that counts.

Beyond professions where you need to be highly intelligent to even be allowed the opportunity to start training for them (doctors for example), it’s so much more down to personality/nature than intelligence.

I am far more intelligent on paper than my husband, and I have lots of formal qualifications - whereas he left school at 16. He earns so much more than me, is hugely respected in his field and his time is very much in demand. From watching him, a lot of it is just natural confidence and not being afraid of taking risks - he will find a solution for any problem. Whereas I’m more of a what is the problem? How do you solve that problem? And if that general solution doesn’t work, the problem is unsolvable and I move on mentally. That’s not the best example but I know what I mean… He can think outside of any box.

I agree with all that. Especially taking education/exams seriously and being prepared to take risks such as starting self employment, networking with the right people, choosing "career" related further education rather than whatever sounds fun, etc.

There’s a lot to this. And I would add this is crucial mid-career in late thirties/early forties. A lot of people give up but it’s important to keep challenging yourself. There’s always a way to do it if you don’t want/have capacity to take on extra work on the side and you work in a large company, do a sideways move into something you might not have lots of experience in and make upskilling your actual job! I think people get stuck in things and don’t realise their own skillset could benefit another role.

Because I followed my passion and became a teacher. Actually as a member of SMT I didn’t earn badly and I have a great pension but someone asked about six figures so …

Maybe it’s just job choices. I work for the public sector so earn £65,000.
My brother works for the private sector as a contractor and earns £150,000. He didn’t get as good grades as me for GCSE’s or A levels and he didn’t go to as good a university. (I don’t care about any of this and chose my university as I liked it not for any other reason.) I’m just explaining this for context. I don’t think academics mean everything so I am not saying I am cleverer than him. I think we are probably about the same.
Also, I’m a single parent so have looked after my children on my own which has made career progression harder. I have been promoted twice in recent years as my children became teenagers.
He has a stay at home wife so he can work whatever hours needed although strangely enough he only generally works 8-4 apart from every now and again when he has to go to London. We live 2 hrs from London so that must be a pain. I work a huge amount more hours than this and work shifts.

So I think he earns so much more than me because he has kept pushing himself career wise and he has chosen his career for money whereas I chose my career as I wanted to help people.
My job is exhausting and stressful but never ever boring. He has said he is bored most days at work, his job means nothing to him but his priority is to support himself, his wife and their 3 children. So fair play to him I think.

I don't think luck keeps people in these positions. They still have to work. What I notice is much higher emotional intelligence, the ability to present a positive outlook regardless of what they feel. The energy they bring. Ability to handle stress. Ability to move on. Ability to not have people and situation dictate their focus and mood. Taking risk. Being on call. Making decisions others ponder over.

I agree with almost all of this but think you underweight privilege. Everything in your list is heavily impacted by that.
-Educated parents = better understanding of the university system and better placed to advise on A-level choices.
-Societies/networking - requires social confidence and understanding of social norms that often comes with privilege and your "face fitting", plus often a financial investment.
-internships vs working in a shop - often simply not a choice for those without family money
-Courage to go for promotion - again often comes easier to those from professional families where success is normal and expected.

I work with disadvantaged young people and every one of the above is a massive hurdle. Of course the most determined can still be very successful but it's so much harder.

In the corporate world, I would say what sets the best leaders apart is:

Personability
Willingness to make decisions/take accountability
Confidence
Understanding your weaknesses and building a team around you to fill those gaps.
Passion
Drive

Not all highest earners are the best leaders. Some of them will have got there through sheer hard work and a sprinkling of luck. Hard work on its own is not enough. You need the traits above.

There is an element of 'the right fit' and that can be a hidden privilege (or not so hidden) but IME it's to do with being obviously good at something that others can't do, for whatever reason. Maybe it's too niche. Maybe it needs an element of ruthlessness. Maybe it needs you to do things with data that others can't do. Maybe you need to have the right sort of innovative ideas and the skills to take them forward.

'Luck' is often used to describe hidden privilege but also to cover up the very hard work that people sometimes do to be the right fit in a high-paying industry. I think if you come from a working class background and end up earning 6 figures, then you have very likely put in a lot of graft in various ways.

Right place, right time, right connections.

Well sometimes yes those things play a part, but hard work and dedication does too.

Often I think it’s more about choices and risk.

My friend is just as clever as me but chose to do a worthy but low paid career.

She’s worked for the same employer her entire career, in the same location. She earns less than me but has never either been made redundant or even threatened with it.

She works a lot less hours than I do and has a great pension scheme.

I went into a corporate job. Less stability, more hours, more risk of redundancy. Higher pay.

We all make our own choices.

To think...why is it assumed intelligence has a monetary value in the first place?

Seem is the operative word here… @SnarkyDenimFox i know a lot of people who can seem quite ditsy,not street smart, do stupid things etc etc but ask them a question about their area of expertise and they will blow me away!! That’s why they are paid! Because they know their shit, and they KNOW they know their shit!

I think a lot of people misunderstand what the skills are that get people into these roles - and why they are paid more.

Look, there is always some element of ‘luck’. But actually I think it’s down to making lots of decisions which propel you in the right direction - and, usually choosing a job in a high-paying industry and then being very committed to it and seeking out progression and promotion.

Are these people smarter than you? Not necessarily.

Have they made particular moves and got particular skills to make more money? Well… yes. And usually at this level if not performing… they’ll be out of a job pretty quickly.

I’d also say - much of the time these are going to be knowledge based roles. So while the people you meet may seem otherwise normal, they will have an encyclopaedic knowledge of something which can then be sold as a premium service for money. Be that as a doctor, a lawyer, a recruiter, a plumber - they’re the best at that one particular thing, and they can command money for that because people are willing to pay for it.

Thats not ‘luck’, they’ll have worked hard to gain that knowledge, and as mentioned above probably have the EQ to sell those skills to other people.

I think a lot of it is also about wanting it.

I always wanted to progress in my career. My family is important to me too and I do have a balance but it has never occurred to me to restrict my work to termtime only 10-2 or whatever, I am totally comfortable using childcare which some women are clearly not

Absolutely this - it annoys me watching people fail upwards but they never rock the boat!

Maybe that’s exactly the problem: we conflate earnings with intelligence, when they don’t necessarily correlate.

It’s not just about being smart though, it’s about a lot of other personal skills and the willingness to do things others don’t want to that distinguishes successful vs less successful people. Just being intelligent is nowhere near enough to get you a job in which you can climb to a top position. A simple difference in attitude is sometimes all it takes. Just working hard also doesn’t mean much if you don’t have vision, ambition and drive. You can be a very hard worker in a bakery (for example) but unless you add a vision to open your own bakery you can always remain a very hard working bakery worker.

I know one person who got mediocre results at school, dropped out of uni after failing, struggled with getting a job but kept persisting.
When he got a job, he put in a lot of effort, did extra stuff, asked to get involved in projects and so on. A few years later and he’s probably the highest earner I know.
He had a lot of bad luck before he got his “lucky” break but he worked really hard.
Other high earners I know, went the traditional route of studying hard, getting a good degree and going into high earning fields.
They worked hard to get where they were and continue to work hard to stay in the job.

Exactly this.

I have known some people who seem to have greased their way up the career ladder in “fancy” schmoozy jobs like marketing and project or general management where soft skills and talking yourself up are very big factors in your progression.

For sure my dh and his peers have got to where they are through very hard graft and technical prowess, along with very high personal effectiveness and resilience and talent (a variety of higher skills). I’m constantly astonished at how brilliant my dh has become through his career.

I have sat in enough board meetings over the years to realise that those at the top are often (but not always) not there through merit. They’re often a bit dim, power-crazed workaholics, good at schmoozing, and have an army of lesser-paid underlings doing all the hard work and coming up with the good ideas.

I’ve worked with CEOs that have really made me wonder if they genuinely have special needs. Oh, and statistically they’re much more likely to be sociopathic.

They also probably put a lot of hours in when they were younger, hence most being men. Women at home with the kids.

Obvious luck, connections, demographic etc play a part. And the topic of women and intelligence is fascinating. But to set all that to one side...
I actually dont think its about smarts, its about understanding the 'game' and/or being naturally suited to play it well or having been brought up in a way that values the same values that tend to get you ahead.
I come from a working class background and now work in a thoroughly middle class world so I have had a lot of exposure to very different mindsets.
one observation I would make is that ive known a lot of working class people who write someone off as 'not smart' because that person is quieter, or was known as the butt of the joke at school, or wouldn't know much about practical stuff. I also have known a lot of working class people who think 'being told what to do' is inherently for stupid people and that all office jobs can be done by a monkey in a suit because its just answering emails. I've met people who think being an abrasive personality should have no bearing on how successful they are, and say 'oh, my face didnt fit, thats why I didnt get the job' ignoring the fact you need diplomatic interpersonal skills to do the job. They consider 'getting along with people, picking your battles, doing what you are told even if you think its a bit pointless/stupid' as a fools game. Once again - just my experiences, not everyone etc. One very common thread being that the people who get ahead, in my experience, are people who are okay with being told 'no' and 'you've made a mistake' there, which requires emotional intelligence to a certain degree that may not come with a mind for numbers or problem solving.
On the middle class side, I come across a lot more people who think the interpersonal skills are more important than actually being able to do the job (which is actually true sometimes) and therefore prioritise them, which means people actually want to work with them and therefore they end up in promotion opportunities. Does mean you end up with some useless people up top! But that also happens because often people are overpromoted to their skillset - fantastic at the job, terrible at bigger picture stuff. Also, people are so different at work to how they are at home! I have friends doing jobs that are the complete opposite to their personalities who do very well at them.