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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that the education system is mad

128 replies

Applebun · 19/08/2025 22:32

What is the point of A levels, when you don't need the grades anyway.

Everyone I know this year who did A levels, told me that if they didn't get the grades that they needed, the University still offered them a place anyway.

Eg the Uni says you must get ABB to get into the course. The student got CCC. The student was offered a place in the Uni anway.

I was talking to my colleague about it. He said that he got really bad grades in his A levels, way lower than what was required to get in, and the Uni still let him in to the course straight away.

The point then is - what is the point of A levels at all.
The Unis want paying students to go to their Uni to keep them going. A lot of them let any student in, no matter what grades they get.

So why make students go through the farcical system of A levels?

OP posts:
SimoneHere · 19/08/2025 23:01

IHeartKingThistle · 19/08/2025 22:52

DD missed her first choice offer by one grade and didn’t get in.

I’m sorry @IHeartKingThistle 🙁

Mom2526 · 19/08/2025 23:01

It's a mad system. You're given offers based on predicted grades which very often don't materialise. You might then be accepted if you drop a grade. But someone else who was predicted less, then achieved higher grades gets no place. If no clearing places, they have to take a gap year to get on the course they want.

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:03

titchy · 19/08/2025 23:00

Why make kids do A levels/other L3 quals? What would you have our 16-18 year olds doing instead?

Do you think the kids with ABB offers, who gained places having got CCC, would have been offered if they had EEE, or nothing?

Other countries either properly fund their HE systems from taxation or allow their unis to charge what the courses actually cost. Or offer a cheap as chips model with very high drop out and no expectation that kids leave home.

So how would YOU do things OP?

I think in education , a system needs to be transparent and fair.

And they should stick to what they say about grades. They can't say that a course needs such a grade, then say, "oh no actually we changed it". That is dishonest and open to corruption

I just had to do a first aid course. This first aid course is very important for my work, as I work with children.

The pass mark for the first aid course is 80 percent. Its set as a standard.

What if I got 50 percent, and they said "oh its okay, you passed anyway!"

OP posts:
Pragueff · 19/08/2025 23:04

I think most sixth formers choose a place where they feel they can party for 3 years. Studying comes after

Millionsofmonkeys · 19/08/2025 23:04

Well my DC was rejected from very middle of the road Manchester Metropolitan for getting CCC when the offer was BCC.

It depends how many places are filled on the course by those who achieved the offer I guess.

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:04

Mom2526 · 19/08/2025 23:01

It's a mad system. You're given offers based on predicted grades which very often don't materialise. You might then be accepted if you drop a grade. But someone else who was predicted less, then achieved higher grades gets no place. If no clearing places, they have to take a gap year to get on the course they want.

I agree, it is a mad system!

OP posts:
MelliC · 19/08/2025 23:06

The problem is with the predictions - 75% are over estimates . Outsource the predictions to AI, maybe the problems goes away?

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:07

MelliC · 19/08/2025 23:06

The problem is with the predictions - 75% are over estimates . Outsource the predictions to AI, maybe the problems goes away?

What is the point of predictions aswell. Its stupid.

How can you predict someones grade.

People do differently in every test.

OP posts:
stonebrambleboy · 19/08/2025 23:08

FortheloveofCheesus · 19/08/2025 22:58

The more prestigious, in demand universities do not do this.

You won't get a place at Oxbridge or Imperial or UCL, with CCC.

Prince Edward did.

IHeartKingThistle · 19/08/2025 23:08

SimoneHere · 19/08/2025 23:01

I’m sorry @IHeartKingThistle 🙁

She got her second choice which she also loved! Thanks though!

OneAmberFinch · 19/08/2025 23:09

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:00

Yeah I know that the top prestigious Unis are picky.

It's the rest of them that I am talking about

I think your real problem is with the universities letting in kids with CCC at all - it wouldn't be improved if they were "upfront" about that requirement! The solution is to have a lot fewer universities and have the C students do something else with their time...

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:10

I just think that most of the education system is a load of bollocks.

It was invented a long time ago. It hasnt been modernised. And it is in need of a major uphaul

OP posts:
FortheloveofCheesus · 19/08/2025 23:13

I do think there's a raft of newer universities which have solid reputations for the courses they've always done (but didn't use to require degrees - such as teaching, nursing etc), but now offer a much broader range and often academic subjects which they don't have the substance for.

Universities like Worcester, Wolverhampton, Buckinghamshire New University, that started as teacher training or nursing colleges. These places should not be offering so many degrees at such high fees.

Hereforthecommentz · 19/08/2025 23:15

I agree op. Too many silly degrees as well. I have a few friends with degrees and thier jobs now don't relate to it and they wouldn't have needed it to get the job. It seems like they've got a load of debt for no reason. Perhaps the experience was worth the debt. It does seem you don't have to be particularly bright to go to uni now so it does devalue it. Apprenticeships are the way forward and trades, they pay a lot more too. For the PP that asked you what would you suggest kids aged 16-18 do, well not so long ago it was optional to go on to college. You could just get a job at 16 and work your way up.

Toseland · 19/08/2025 23:18

It's a sign of how people are finding it hard financially and are looking for value for money from Universities and only finding indoctrination.

InOverMyHead84 · 19/08/2025 23:22

It's because Universities are no longer just about gaining skills, they are an industry in their own right. Some towns/cities economies are dependent on the universities thriving.

My old home city Coventry now has a city centre based around the University. I was one of the students and stayed for 7 years after finishing.

No students, no money. The whole thing collapses.

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 19/08/2025 23:24

Many unis are in the verge of going under. They need the cash. This is why they are taking lower offers.
Students are not seeing value for money anymore and looking at other options

Simply put the bubble is bursting. It's too expensive and it's not value for money anymore. Students are not even getting a real experience in many cases as it's all online The Blair policy has ruined university education.

3678194b · 19/08/2025 23:30

For 10k almost a year, there should be no entry requirements. They are not students, they are customers or clients who often get a shoddy service.

To think people used to leave paid work to change career and become a mature student, because it was free although they were sacrificing a salary. That's another discussion really but it's ridiculous and sad to think people leave university owing tens of thousands.

Amiunemployable · 19/08/2025 23:39

I went to Uni without any A Levels at all.

They said I had to do a foundation year first because I had no A Levels.

I started the foundation year in September, and halfway through October, I was bored senseless.

I contacted the course director of the subject I wanted to study (the foundation year was a general humanities based year, not course specific) and asked if I could bypass the foundation year. I offered to show him some work to see if he thought I'd manage. He didn't even bother to look at it but accepted me straight away.

Mad.

VaccineSticker · 19/08/2025 23:50

Applebun · 19/08/2025 22:43

I went to Uni in a different country. The Unis there never lowered the grades to let people in.

I just find it really strange. Like whats the point of studying for A -levels at all them. My colleague said that his Uni course wanted an AAB. He got a CCC and got in.

If you look online, loads of teenagers this year are saying that they didnt get their required grades, and they still got into their Uni course.

Its a strange system.

Edited

Because less foreign students are coming over for various reason. Normally foreign students’ tuition fees are x3 the British students’ fee which is a sizeable amount. Universities need the money.

bumblingbovine49 · 19/08/2025 23:54

I spend a lot of time in my job looking at university data and I can tell you that the lowering of grades at confimation (based on actual results) is a new phenomena . Some universities may have done this by a grade on some courses in the past but this has been happening a lot more in the last two years in particular and this year has been particularly bad year for it

This is all a direct result of introducing the student loan system, tution fees that barely risen in over ten years along wth a catastrophic drop in in international stuents.

Universities cannot continue to deliver an undergraduate education of the quality expected, along with providing all of the additional support needed with the income they have. To try to save themselves financially they are being reduced to just taking all the students they can, with much less regard to their A Level qualifications than in the past. Not every university on every course (it will be more on humanities courses than STEM ones), but even the Russell Goups have started to do this in larger numbers on some of their less popular courses now as the finances are starting to bite them too.

To be fair, there is evidence that A Levels are not the best indicatior of who will do well in university but they are what we have and it is difficult to predict who will do well at university regardless of school exams. It is the first time for most young people that they choose for themselves what they want to do and that has a big effect on motivation, which means that there is some justification for sometimes dropping A Level grades for entry to university for some students.

However the major driver for grade dropping at he moment is that universities are getting desperate. UK universities delivered an absolutely excellent edcation until a few years ago. Covid was the beginning of the end of that but mostly because it coincided wth the perfect storm of circumstances I listed above.

We get the education system we deserve. If you tell universities they have to act like businesses in the 'product' they deliver, that they must meet ever increasingly onerous standards and legal obligations to students 'the customers' but give them absolutely no control over what they can charge to deliver that product - (in fact refuse to allow a raise in prices for 13 years), and at the same time reduce access to income from intenational students, this is what you get

As for paid apprenticeships - everyone says. 'At least you get paid', but completion rates are pretty low and satisfaction rates with them are lower than with degrees. Frankly I'd be less satisfied having to work and study at the same time, usually to gain a very narrow set of skills set by an employer that don't always translate to other jobs. Degree apprenticeships require that you commit to job at a very early, that you know what you want to work as at a very young age. At least a lot of university degrees teach transferrable skills

In any case the number of Degree apprenticechips have grown considerably in the last few years but who do you think delivers a lot of them? (a clue is higher education providers) . They are complicated to set up as employers drive much of the curriculum so difficult to run and not necessarily very lucrative for the providers unless they are of pretty poor quality

I wish I had the answer but I don't I'm afraid. What options do universities have other than to keep their student numbers up to plug the finance leak? People say let them go bust, then we would have fewer providers but If universities do go bust, there will be a lot of students on degrees, including degree apprenticeships that will not be able to complete their courses. Having to stop in the middle of a programme of study having paid for 1 or 2 years with no outcome is pretty awful. The Govt is unlikely to step in to help, universities are incredibly unpopular as a recipient of Govt support, you only need to look at the media to see that.

It is a big mess at the moment

Applebun · 19/08/2025 23:55

VaccineSticker · 19/08/2025 23:50

Because less foreign students are coming over for various reason. Normally foreign students’ tuition fees are x3 the British students’ fee which is a sizeable amount. Universities need the money.

It doesn't sound right does it.

They need money, so they will let students with any grades in.

Surely it should be regulated better.

Or they should be clear about what they are doing amd have the Uni courses advertised as being open to all paying customers.

OP posts:
lkjhgfdsa · 20/08/2025 00:10

I agree the whole thing is mad but I disagree that doing A levels is the problem.

There are too many people going to university and too many degree that are not offering the students good value (when you consider the levels of debt). The application system is utter madness. It would be far better for applications and offers to be made after the results come out. Other countries manage to do it that way. I understand that there would be time pressure to get the admin done but there would surely be considerably less admin to do?

A levels have value though. My dd would never have managed her engineering degree without the things she learned doing further maths A level for eg.

howdowedo · 20/08/2025 00:26

I recently did a Masters at a top 5 uni and the calibre of student was seriously low. They just need the money.

AugustDieSheMust · 20/08/2025 00:28

@bumblingbovine49 wrote
... I can tell you that the lowering of grades at confirmation (based on actual results) is a new phenomena. Some universities may have done this by a grade on some courses in the past but this has been happening a lot more in the last two years in particular and this year has been particularly bad year for it.
This is all a direct result of introducing the student loan system, tuition fees that barely risen in over ten years along with a catastrophic drop in in international students. (My bolding)

I 100% agree with this. This opinion is based on 30 years of teaching sixth formers and 4 years lecturing at a polytechnic-turned-university, and having two close relatives who were students, and are currently senior lecturers, at Oxbridge/Russell group universities.