To NOT arrange for my child to be tutored for 11+?

[Spongblobsparepants]

I know I’m a bit late to this one, but it’s occurred to me that every single family I’ve spoken to, who’s child is attempting to get into grammar school, is having their child expensively tutored to within an inch of its life.

I always thought that the point of the gs system was to act as a leveller and allow clever children from all backgrounds to have an excellent education. I remember saying as such to the mums of the two others in their class who are doing the 11+….before realising that they too are forking out vast sums for tutoring.😳

Now in feeling like the idiot, as all I’ve done is shove a few past papers and a workbook in front of my child, to give an idea of what to expect.

It helps that mine is ambivalent about where they’re going, the gs itself is out of county and the local state comp and its sixth form is good. My main worry is my child getting bored and mucking about there to be honest. They’re very bright (not bragging, but it’s true, has been doing yr 6 work for a while) but I’ve not particularly been pushing. I ‘never my fulfilled my potential’ as my mother would say 🙄and am now wondering if I should have approached this as a ‘project’ like the other ambitious parents appear to have done.

AIBU?

whilst I agree with you broadly, I get the impression you’re using “immigrant family” to indicate some over coming of the odds of poor finances and education/ language to get to GS, as an example for poor people.

whilst there is no doubt (in my area) that Indian, Chinese and Nigerian families dominate selective education, their results are not, I would suggest, replicable by your average family on FSM. They are often highly educated and well funded, lazer focused, and often apply high levels of pressure to their children.

the immigrant work ethic is well documented. Why move here if you don’t take advantage of those privileges?

Yes "my" immigrant family consisted of a medical consultant and a banker! Technically I am an immigrant too - and a lawyer ;)

It depends how desperate you are.

We had to move to a real shithole, 150 miles from where we are from due to some really bad luck and health related matters. We will be stuck here for a while. That wasn’t my dds fault.

It was the grammar half an hour away, (or ones fitter afield in the closest city),or a choice of really shit schools which really are just dire (not due of the one single sex grammar, 30 mins away, but because it’s an awful area).

So we sacrificed a lot (well, dh did, thankfully).

I get it. We are in Kent and although we are lucky we have some decent choice in comprehensive I know full well that had we been 40 minutes further down the M20 we would in the same situation.

No, I’m not. I’m taking about the parents I have met.

My mother was also an immigrant, and a consultant obstetrician, for what it’s worth. I know we are not all the same, or poor.

I live across the road from one of the most notorious council estates in the Black Country right now - I know ”poor” (and they are mainly white British who wouldn’t think about the grammars we have access to).

It sounds like you and your child are both ambivalent. I’m a teacher and highly tutored students tend to struggle later on. I think, given your alternative is fine and your child is bright then it’ll be fine either way.

We’re on the Bexley - Kent borders and the general consensus is that the Kent test is the easier of the two. More of our Y6s pass the Kent than the Bexley test.

There’s tutoring and tutoring.
The 11+ near us they need to know all yr6 maths 3 weeks into yr6. Either tutor or parent needs to teach them it.
Plus doing past papers to familiarise and explaining basic exam technique.
Main thing is practice to get speed up.
But those needing extensive tutoring for years/hours a week will either not pass or struggle there.

You're doing exactly what I did with my kids (now 21 and 19). They were not tutored beyond what I was willing to do myself personally to support getting them used to the exams. My ADHD son spent most of his 11+ prep time playing on a app called freerice that taught words (since he mostly read science books and little fiction) and playing internet maths games. He simply was not interested in more formal learning at the end of the school day and I'm glad I didn't have him to be privately tutored as learning should be enjoyable. One of my daughter's closest friends used vouchers to take one of those 11+ prep classes they have in Explore Learning concessions in Sainsburys supermarkets as she grew up on a council estate and was a young carer. The friend got in just fine as did my children. Son is now an MRes student with intentions to follow his parents into doing a PhD and then go into academia.

I hate to say it but there were plenty of patents I knew to be spending an absolute fortune and their children didn't pass. Tutoring isn't a guarantee. The children who failed often go on to do well at school and get good jobs. Arguably in better paid, more reliable careers than my son is aspiring towards, given how tough academia is.

In my and my children's experience (as a product of one many years ago), grammar schools are a pressure cooker, with a lot of intense children many of whom are neurodivergent all vying to get straight As. I really wouldn't advise parents to force their children to go to one (and neither would my children). BTW we're in Bucks.

I agree with this. I don’t think it’s fair on a child to expect them to sit exam without ever having seen the type of question before. However clever they are, most would struggle in this situation. There will always be exceptions of course.

I’ve spent a fortune. I’m well aware my DC may not get a space and wouldn’t have invested if it hadn’t accepted that as an outcome. It’ll still be beneficial to her

That's fine. I'll bet such children do see a benefit from focusing on improving their maths and English and exam taking skills. That in and of itself can't hurt. But if the result isn't what you want, then that's OK too.

BTW My son vehemently, vehemently hates grammar schools, because they are pressure cookers. He didn't pay any attention to his teachers obsessing over the amount of revision they wanted him to do and when, but he saw friends who did, and whose mental health suffered as a consequence of the pressure cooker atmosphere.

If your child is bright enough then they will pass without tutoring. My daughter only had a few past papers to have a go at and passed without tutoring. The head teacher at her grammar school was against children being tutored through the exam and many of the ‘borderline’ pupils struggled to keep up with the work in the first year and left.

Grammar schools don't want raw ability. They want children who are bright and whose parents are invested enough to pay for tutoring not to mention kids who are willing to engage with tutoring.

It's no secret that the kids who get in are the ones who have been tutored. Grammar schools have identified the types of families that they want and organise the selection process accordingly.

10 yrs ago a friend of a friend sent her bright son totally unprepared. He freaked out at the exam paper - multiple choice you needed to mark with a line in a specific way which he’d never seen then started crying at verbal reasoning which he’d never encountered and was removed from hall.
Failed and got allocated a school in special measures that has since closed. I think they went private in end.
I think mum wanted to brag how he’d not needed tutoring. It was cruel. You wouldn’t expect an adult to sit an exam in full exam conditions without being familiar with content and format.

What schools are these? No one else on the thread has experienced them 😂

We didn’t pay for tutoring but we know several parents who did. We got some past papers and DH got DS to do them timed then go through the marking together. But this started only say three months before the 11 plus. Its more about knowing the way to tackle the questions and going through that as it is unlike ordinary school work. But I totally agree with you expensive tutoring is a waste they are either capable of passing and studying at GS level only with working on a small amount of past papers at home and without the tutoring or they aren’t. Our DS absolutely thrived at GS.

It will really depend on where you are.

We're in a similar position, OP. We're in Chester, the schools are fine, but the grammar schools in Wirral are excellent. They're also not that competitive compared to some other parts of the country, generally the top 1/3 get in.

DD1 didn't have a tutor but we did a fair bit with her from May in Year 5. She thinks everyone else she's friends with was tutored.

She passed, but I put in a lot of effort in understanding the subject matter, particularly the different types of NVR questions.

So maybe equivalent in time and support to tutoring, but we did it ourselves.

It's a bit of a confidence crusher to be put in for an exam and not pass. Your DC is not to know you didn't prepare them and will not see the difference in all their class mates who got taught how to recognise the question type and address it quickly.

Being bright isn't always enough because there are trip you up questions that lose you time and the paper isn't designed to necessarily be finished. You end up in situations like not doing the last 9 maths questions and missing easy marks.

Speed is really important. By now (Trafford) those kids you say "have been tutored to within an inch of their lives" have worked through each question type methodically, learned how to answer them, then spent the summer getting up to speed with mock papers. Also reading and learning vocab at a steady rate to help with verbal reasoning.

Many who are tutored won't get in. But unfair to pit an untutored child against them. Unless super bright?

My dc very bright (well one is) but I don't think they'd have had multiple schools to choose from (we have state and Catholic grammars) if they hadn't put in the practice

It's a bit of a confidence crusher to be put in for an exam and not pass. Your DC is not to know you didn't prepare them and will not see the difference in all their class mates who got taught how to recognise the question type and address it quickly.

Being bright isn't always enough because there are trip you up questions that lose you time and the paper isn't designed to necessarily be finished. You end up in situations like not doing the last 9 maths questions and missing easy marks.

Speed is really important. By now (Trafford) those kids you say "have been tutored to within an inch of their lives" have worked through each question type methodically, learned how to answer them, then spent the summer getting up to speed with mock papers. Also reading and learning vocab at a steady rate to help with verbal reasoning.

Many who are tutored won't get in. But unfair to pit an untutored child against them. Unless super bright?

My dc very bright (well one is) but I don't think they'd have had multiple schools to choose from (we have state and Catholic grammars) if they hadn't put in the practice

As others have said, OP, it is very dependent on area/content of the 11+ your child will be sitting. Where I am a larger proportion of the exam is verbal and non verbal reasoning than Maths & English. The state primaries are forbidden from teaching VR/NVR, the local prep schools prepare it heavily. Therefore if your child is a state candidate, some additional preparation (whether that takes the form of an external tutor, or a VR/NVR technique-savvy parent) is essential. Makes a mockery of the ideology of grammar schools, as you say, but it is the reality here.

If he's bright he should pass the exam with no tutor. If children need tutoring to get into a grammar how will they cope when actually there? Your child will do well at whichever school he attends. My granddaughter has just got her BSc Hons after being an August baby (youngest in year) & struggling until 6th Form. She had a LSA at school and slowly caught up then surpassed her classmates. She never had a tutor, but was in a city that was comprehensive not selective. Kids find their own level if they are workers. Your son will do well.

There are loads of ineffective tutors out there that string parents and kids of average ability along for significant amounts of time - so not paying for tutoring in itself, is definitely not a bad thing.
If your child is a voracious reader with excellent mental arithmetic and naturally fast at writing and processing and performing under pressure, they will be fine with basic familiarisation of exam format and how to maximise marks. But make sure their school has covered the maths curriculum that may come up. And I advise that basic familiarisation of reasoning questions is recommended. Also a mock test to perform in an exam hall with other kids is often worth the cost. Just so they know what to expect on the day.

That was like my friend’s son, who had no prep at all. The poor boy came out distraught, she said he was absolutely sobbing, he just didn’t know what to do. She thought as he was really clever (he is), he would be fine. He just didn’t know what to do. I felt so bad for him.

Any exam is easier if you are familiar with the type of question and there are books and practice tests that you can use.

DC got into the Grammars locally a few years ago, just with parental help.