To NOT arrange for my child to be tutored for 11+?

[Spongblobsparepants]

I know I’m a bit late to this one, but it’s occurred to me that every single family I’ve spoken to, who’s child is attempting to get into grammar school, is having their child expensively tutored to within an inch of its life.

I always thought that the point of the gs system was to act as a leveller and allow clever children from all backgrounds to have an excellent education. I remember saying as such to the mums of the two others in their class who are doing the 11+….before realising that they too are forking out vast sums for tutoring.😳

Now in feeling like the idiot, as all I’ve done is shove a few past papers and a workbook in front of my child, to give an idea of what to expect.

It helps that mine is ambivalent about where they’re going, the gs itself is out of county and the local state comp and its sixth form is good. My main worry is my child getting bored and mucking about there to be honest. They’re very bright (not bragging, but it’s true, has been doing yr 6 work for a while) but I’ve not particularly been pushing. I ‘never my fulfilled my potential’ as my mother would say 🙄and am now wondering if I should have approached this as a ‘project’ like the other ambitious parents appear to have done.

AIBU?

They are a good opportunity for the kids that can get in and thrive in them. For everyone else they are pretty rubbish. I would like to see them done away with.

What would be better would be to just get rid of a two tier system.

Would you think that if your daughter had got in?

Yes.

I would still have sent her because the system is what it is and we have to work with that. But I 100% am against the grammar system, even more so now we are in it. My son will sit the 11+ too, I suspect he will pass as he is similar in intelligence to my daughter but without the dyslexia. They will have very different educations, which is a massive shame. And wouldnt' be the case if Kent wasn't the way it was.

My child had a year of group tutoring prior to the 11+

Her school taught nothing like it (we are not in an 11+ area, she was the first child from her school to take it for as long as anyone could remember).

She needed to be taught how to answer the questions. She’d also never taken an exam before. The tutoring centre arranged two mock exams so she knew what to expect.

She’s really clever, but if we’d have sat her in front of a non verbal reasoning paper and told her to get on with it, she wouldn’t have known what to do.

Thats what happened to a friend of mine in another area. She did nothing with her son. Said he would pass it as he was really bright (he really, really is), but he got a low mark. He was distraught after the exam as he didn’t know what to do for half the questions. She really did him a disservice.

I am now enemy number one as my daughter is about to start a grammar, even though she “goes to a chav school in a shithole” (her words, but actually, they are true).

If your child gets in solely through tutoring alone they will struggle at the grammar school. This is not good for them.

Exactly. It also contains math principles they've not even learnt yet. You don't know algebra just be being bright. You have to have been introduced to the concept.

A close friend is HO 6th form at a Grammar near me and invigilates the 11+
She says that every year there are a number of children who turn the paper over and have no idea how to tackle it.
It covers things in a way most State schools don't and some DC have never seen sat a formal exam or seen a multiple choice paper
Not getting them to do practice papers and a couple of mocks under exam conditions is doing them a real dis service

This is not true if the super selectives at all. Scores of very bright children may pass the exam.

But it’s only the top 120 or whatever that will get in each year. In these exams pretty much all kids sitting for it are The top 1 or 2 of their class.

That’s not the case in the grammar my daughter is going to. They have an outreach programme in ten local schools to target children on FSM (not my daughter’s school as we are half an hour away). They offer classes at the grammar for children in year 4 and 5 on FSM, free group tutoring sessions, free workbooks for home, support for parents to enter the exams, free uniforms, music lesssons and trips if they do get in, and the pass mark for FSM children is lower.

I know that the schools in my nearest city offer the same.

It’s well publicised by the school- my child is not on FSM and still, I know about it. We don’t even live in the area. But if she was in receipt of FSM, we could have applied for the help too.

So it’s not just for the privileged. People say it is, I don’t live in a great area, yet my child is the only one from her school who has taken 11+ there for as long as they can remember. The nearest grammars are half an hour/45 min away in either direction and all offer free or subsidised travel for those on FSM. If the parents here were arsed, they could have had a chance too.

In the last couple of years competition in my area has become even more fierce. The VAT for private schools has meant loads of parents wanting to send their kids to grammar (and extensively tutoring instead) rather than pay the private fees... !!

The type of questions and style of them aren’t what you see everyday - without tutoring even the brightest kid would struggle, a little tutoring is sadly needed just so they understand the style of exam and questions xx

Or, rather than the top 1 or 2 they or their parents are determined and well prepared (and yes, well funded)

we are in a super selective area and many parents aren’t prepared - not finding out about the school until year 5 or 6, not understanding the level of competition or plain not wanting their children to get involved in the madness.

only 1/2/3 children in my daughters school take in the first place. My Dd is one and I’m pretty sure a couple of her friends are as capable of her, but just won’t be there.

luckily though, the other schools we can attend are good.

it’s interesting because it’s opportunity and hard work too.

It depends when you are, getting a London grammar place will involve some for of tuition for more dc & many have intensive tuition because it's so competitive.

I think determination and work ethic is just a big (if not bigger) factor as intelligence. What I saw (in Kent) was that the kids that practiced a lot (whether tutored or not) tended to pass. Only the very intelligent of them went to the ultraselectives.

@theresapossuminthekitchen same
DC just got over due to said maths .

Now in top 5% of cohort with GCSE results .

I always thought that the point of the gs system was to act as a leveller and allow clever children from all backgrounds to have an excellent education.

I would say that’s how it was presumed to work, but definitely doesn’t always do that any more. Not tutoring/going through past papers will put your child at a real disadvantage tbh in my opinion. Do you want them to get in?

Yes another one here who thinks you’ve dropped the ball OP. I don’t like the system and am anti grammar school system but to have a chance you do need to tutor and I think if your son is bright you should enable him to access the best school.

It’s about accessibility too though.

I can’t tutor my children for 11+. Much of it i don’t understand myself.

i have struggled massively to help my children with their practise and homework. I have to preprepare by finding out how to do the questions myself first. I have to work out the marking scheme to assess whether their answers are any good. I am still well out of my depth.i

i have a high pressure full time job and it takes up a massive amount of my time- and they are tutored. I am not doing the actual teaching!

imagine a large family with all ages, less financial means, less flexible work arrangements, maybe no laptops, car etc to facilitate tutoring- it’s not that simple. You don’t generally just rock up to after school clubs and that’s all you need.

plus, if I remember rightly FSm is a income of <£7k per annum- that’s not a big group and there are a lot of children falling outside of that.

“Leveller” (hollow laugh)

Think Essex is around 3 or 4 %

Yes, I do get that.

You have to remember as well though that a huge portion of grammar school children come from immigrant families - many of them have lots of children, parents working lots of hours. They somehow make it work. English isn’t the parents first language for many of the children my daughter will be attending school with.

We did, I was extremely ill over the last couple of years, my husband had it all on his plate, the house, the children, finances, work, I was useless.

You just sacrifice and do what you have to do if you really want something.

Reality rarely conforms to idealistic principles. Even in countries where education has been/is entirely state run there are better schools and worse schools, with the better schools invariably containing children whose parents have greater means than the parents of those in the worse schools.

My parents grew up in different Communist countries, and in both there were elite schools where admittance depended on parental connections, and/or bribes.

If tutoring would give your child an advantage, then do it.

Yeah this is how our grammars work.

DD has a girl in her class who is from an asian immigrant family. She's been tutored since she was in year 2. She has also been encouraged to prioritise 11+ work over actual school work just to pass. She was expected to do about 8 hrs a day of study over the summer holiday. They were set on an ultraselective. She did pass but didn't make it into the ultraselective.

I guess we all have different ideas of what level of sacrifice we want for our children.