To think feminism has started excusing bad behaviour in women the way patriarchy used to excuse men?

[WryCoralCritic]

It used to be “boys will be boys.” Now I hear “she’s just setting boundaries” or “she’s living her truth” as excuses for poor behaviour. AIBU to think we’ve swapped one blind spot for another?

What about your misogyny? Absolutely right.

I know exactly what you are saying op and I absolutely agree. For some people, “holding my boundaries” means being utterly vile when they don’t get exactly what they want, even when what they want is entirely unreasonable. And “speaking my truth” just means being spiteful and hurtful.

Where you are wrong is to blame feminism - that’s just wrong and misogynistic

Exactly, I’m not talking about women asserting themselves in healthy ways. I’m talking about when genuinely selfish or unfair behaviour gets wrapped up in the language of empowerment. It blurs the line and makes it harder to call out.

I don’t know anyone who excuses their own rudeness with talk of boundaries or their own truth.

I have seen women accused of selfishness when they have tried to keep a small corner of their world for themselves- not being available to other people whenever they want.

I think rude people will be rude, and people talk a lot of bollocks.

That doesn’t mean that boundaries aren’t an important concept, or that feminism has done something wrong. That’s just rude badly behaved selfish people behaving as they always have.

You put it much more eloquently than I could have.

Now I hear “she’s just setting boundaries”

How dare she sett boundaries!!!

I fear your not so internalised misogyny is clouding your view of women. You really need to do better if you think women setting boundaries is selfish and cruel 🙄

Just reply with your own boundaries. Do you need to call someone out?

I’m missing Mum’s birthday dinner because I have boundaries and she’s chosen a venue I don’t want to go to. I don’t eat in chain restaurants. That’s my truth and you can’t change me.

Ok. Mum’s birthday is more important to me than where we celebrate so I’ll be there.

No it doesn't.

You just call it out, the same as you'd call out someone for any selfish behaviour.

And if you believe they're using feminism as an excuse rather than a reason, then you call that out too 🤷‍♂️

I haven’t thought about this before but now I think about it, I agree with you. What annoys me is it now seems completely socially acceptable for women to bang on about how beautiful, funny, intelligent they are because it’s seen as ‘empowering’ and ‘speaking the truth’. What happened to humbleness? To me it’s embarrassing and arrogant. Similar with women being told, “you’re allowed to take up space” - that doesn’t mean it’s ok to shout, talk down to people, or be rude, under the guise of having the right to ‘be seen’

@Spookygoose I don't believe that is limited to women. My perspective is that that type of presentation is heavily influenced by social media and influences, rather than sex.

Can we not do the 'Rachel from accounts' please?

The misogyny in this post is breathtaking.

I think it's just plain selfish behaviour, be it man or woman. A selfish woman might use setting boundaries etc as an excuse for being selfish. Like a selfish man might excuse his behaviour as boys being boys. Maybe nothing to with feminism in that sense. But then, is a selfish woman more likely to get it pointed out because she's a woman..

But is it actually rudeness and selfishness or is it perceived that way because it's women and women must be polite and accommodating at all time therefore any deviation from that makes people uncomfortable?

I don’t think feminism is one solid thing, or that a lot of people who say things like ‘she’s just setting boundaries’ would count themselves as feminists or be able to define it.

So not really. But I do think women are freer (and have the money) to do what they want than they used to, which includes behaving badly, I do think that’s better than 50 years ago, at least.

This is exactly what I mean when I ask whether it's actual bad behaviour or just perceived that way because it's women - in what way is women recognising their own qualities a bad thing? Why should they be humble? This is plainly viewing women in a negative light just because they're not acting the way they're 'supposed' to.

In that case you are unreasonable to blame feminism for it. Call it by the cheekyfuckery that it is. If it's unreasonable behavior then it's just as unreasonable for a man to do it as for a woman to do it, and feminism has nothing to do with it.

There are many feminisms. Some excuse and promote horrendous behavior and some don’t. Here on MN the specific form that feminism (sometimes seems to) take is very hyper, aggressive, and often flashes to the surface with railing against #bekind as though the dicta to be compassionate and think about others were not millenia old.

Its not feminism that talks of boundaries however: its pseudo psychology that does and both men and women talk about doing so. Perhaps you have only noticed it when women fo so because historically female boundaries havd been set by others (society, husband, the church, sentimental notions) and the very idea of a woman choosing and enforcing her own boundaries was seen as novel and transgressive.

Knowing snd setting clear boundaries, deciding on one’s own commitments, is not inherently abusive or rude.

"Boys being boys" excused violence, hooliganism, vandalism, sexual crimes and even pedophilia. I'm nearly 60, I lived through those times.
Does any examples of female boundaries or truth compare to what men used to be excused for?

YABU.

Individual women may excuse bad behaviour in women but feminism does no such thing.

I can't say I have particularly noticed this, but I work in a male-dominated role, so just don't come across so many women, and the ones I do meet are mostly fine.

Someone (and I can't remember who just now,) said something along the lines of, we know when we will gave achieved true equality, when mediocre women can get into positions of power as easily as mediocre men do .

But there have always been people who are rude and selfish- nothing new there. However, we are socially conditioned to find poor behaviour more unacceptable in women than in men, so I'd question myself whether I am judging women more harshly for behaving in ways I'd let go lf it were a man.

Please give examples

Also there is no “used to”. Society still excuses poor male behaviour and blames women for it.

And setting a boundary is not poor behaviour.

Probably sometimes, but not in general There are people who use 'But at least they know what a woman is!' to excuse support for hard-right-wingers but I wouldn't really call that feminism.