Thread 15: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 14 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

4 more from The Observer:
‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...

The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)

(Live/online event)

The Observer YouTube Channel: The Observer UK - YouTube

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 14: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5388981-thread-14-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently a number of interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for fourteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

#Pinchofsaltpath
#Fudge
#Cider
#OurChloe
#OurSimon
#Correspondents
#Salray
#Timmoth
#MistakesWereMade
#EmbellishedBollox
#JustBollox
#DriveByScolding
#Glumwashing
#ThereBeSharks
#Scones
#NakedHikers
#TurquoiseGString
#BudleighSalterton
#SallyForth
#YesItReallyIsThread15
#Rabbits

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

I think we've all suggested lots of novels and sources that have been borrowed from - not just one.
This fits with the - wrote a first draft ages ago (how long before could be 90/2000s maybe she did a writing group. then added to again after 2013), then rewritten as the current novel during the Polruan days 2015-2016 probably from the comfort of her desk (as shown on insta) therefore largely drawing from a lot of sources available at that time. You could say it inspired rather than plagerised. This isn't that unusual or unbelievable (if she'd not pretended otherwise).
There's so much in it that could have been lifted from Armitage, the walkies book, the Aussies blog, I'd also argue WILD (the themes of no food until next week due to no money..that is a key theme in WILD. She also mentions watching others eat a lot) and loads of things others have mentioned. It explains a lot of why the voice isn't authentically hers (male gaze etc).

This from another source.

I've just watched the Rick Stein episode at the Cider Farm on BBC iPlayer. I was amazed to see TW on his knees picking apples then lifting heavy trugs and nimbly spreading the apple cheese onto the very wide cider press. Hardly the action of someone who might not be around the following Christmas (as he'd told the owner) and given the symptons he'd previously described - stiff legs, painful shoulder, numb fingers etc.,

It's also interesting to note that this may have all been an act and that they weren't actually involved in the cider production - though not a surprise given their nature.

I also found SW's practice perfomance with Gigspanner really cringe (shown on the same episode). Her dancing around holding a microphone and doing some recitals was an embarrasing watch.

I have just managed to get a copy of TSP from the library and will start to read it shortly. It should be an interesting read.

I think his absences, comnentary & ‘surprise’ appearances are all likely contrived & deliberate.

Beyond the tamed hair & scrubbing up well for red carpet events, can’t see much change in Ray?

Salt Road was being performed across Cornwall between 2014 and 2018. RW was seen in the audience at one of the gigs apparently. The stories were different, but the name may well have inspired a writer looking for an alternative title to Lightly Salted Fudge Fingers Blackberries

I see them as equally entitled and culpable. Salray is getting most of the flak as author/public face/known embezzler but I find it impossible to believe in Mothtim as an innocent bystander, unaware of calamitous family finances and his own real diagnosis. There is somehing that feels very "off" to me, from the sparingly doled out appearances to the studied charisma to the natty Thomas Hardy meets Tom Ford wardrobe. It is like the world has been sold Salray's image of her perfect wonderful husband, it is a role he is playing and not authentic.

I know a few men with that look (Finnisterre catalogue I call it). Let's just say it's definitely not a casually thrown together look. It's contrived. One of these men I know even does the book in the back pocket thing. It makes me laugh! It's a uniform of a different kind. Not At All Original.

It's widely reported in the media and comes from interview/s. Anderson says how surprised she was to find SalRay so guarded.

Can't remember but at the end of the film I think there's the usual statement thing that comes up on the screen saying 'Ray and Moth are blah blah blah'. Usually they'd also show an actual photo of the real people or a little clip... but they don't.
Film people probably knew too!!

Hi - new MNer and joined just to follow this thread (have been stalking since thread2!). Just wanted to say how impressed I have been by the considered and balanced comments. Also, the obvious care and research taken to make sure that rumours and "fake news" do not spread.
But, main reason for saying hi now is that I really hope the homeless message does not get lost in the mistakes, saltyness, greed and lies. I was homeless for a while with my husband (sounds dramatic - but we came back from travelling around the world with no money and nowhere to stay). So, we camped and walked too for six months. We came back in Feb and I remember how cold it was camping - we had to wear all our clothes in the sleeping bag and he got a toothbrush for his 30th birthday. Dispite the lies and mistuths etc, the book did highlight how hard it is surving on not much. Such a shame if this message gets overlooked. But, carry on - it's been very entertaining and thank you @DisappointedReader for 15 great threads.

Another thought occurred. RayMoth are apparently closer with his family than hers and she doesn’t have friends. Narc type partners are often controlling and I can totally imagine that he may have drawn her into his orbit and effectively cut off from her family and not allowed any friends. Mine also used to put me down- negging- he used to disguise it as compliments, “if you did [this impossible or expensive thing/ if you were someone else] you’d be gorgeous” etc. again, if you get this from age 18, your self esteem will be shot.

May also be true that RW parents/mother were not kind and groomed her to be with someone like this. If she didn’t have internal resources or bullshit detector because she was brought up to assume what she thought or felt was wrong.

Raysal might also watch what she says because she’s been castigated before about saying the wrong thing- she might not know at the time that it’s wrong, but the correction would come later.

(Projecting? Me? Shurely not…)

Especially when she has happily discussed their sex life, thefts & wild crapping in the books.

I have some not-quite-formed thoughts about how SW's guardedness comes from the work of managing the relationship between "Raynor and Moth" the book characters, and the real people Sally and Tim. When she wrote TSP they were quite separate; she could talk about the characters' sex lives, thefts, etc and not have it connect to Sally and Tim. (I'm NOT saying that everything in the book is invented, I don't think it is, but there's a kind of distancing in the act of writing it down). But increasingly as there's more media exposure it gets harder and harder to keep the separation in place, and at the same time the reading public wants to hear more about the characters "Raynor and Moth" so she writes sequels, and she gets more and more anxious about how to keep "Raynor and Moth" going, without them being destroyed by Sally and Tim's issues (which aren't the publicly-acceptable issues discussed in the books; history of embezzlement is the one we can be pretty sure about, others have been guessed at here).

Case in point: she was ridiculously and bizarrely uncomfortable, right until the Observer story broke, with people asking what Moth's real name was, even though it's a very ordinary name that wouldn't tell you anything much about him. (When the Observer story broke, she said that it was never a big deal and the names are used interchangeably - which clearly wasn't the case. She used to care a lot about keeping Moth and Tim separate).

In fact, in the acknowledgements for TSP, she thanks TW's sister and one of his two brothers (not the French chateau one!) and his partner, plus her sister and husband. For the record, she also thanks Polly, Dave and Julie (!) and Anna.

Edited to add that the info on Westward Ho! earlier must have influenced by overuse of the exclamation mark...

I still think SW may have told some family members that Martin Hemmings lent or even gave her the money on the quiet because he took a shine to her...a fantasist (or someone desperately trying to avoid conviction) might even say 'he told me to sign cheques for him'. If she's denying the embezzlement, I can't think of another excuse she could come up with.
Unfortunately Mr Hemmings isn't here to speak up for himself.

I think this too - seems she created fictions of herself and Tim. We see this fictional version everytime she speaks in public, sticking to the script like shes actually a character stuck in the book world. I don't think we've ever really seen or heard from the real Sally. And Tim is usally absent so we never see him either, much like how he is portrayed in the book with very little detail character development or much about who he is and what he thinks.

One of the things that got me thinking this way was a bizarre moment in the Sophie Raworth interview when she says something about her mother dying and then moves straight on to talking about the book characters in the present tense ("that affects what we do next in The Wild Silence") - as you would if you were talking about the narrative in a book, but as you really wouldn't (I think?) if you were reflecting on your own past experiences. It's as if she is trying to keep even her mother's death shut inside the book (perhaps partly because she altered the timeline at this point so she needs to be really careful to keep herself in the fictional timeline, but perhaps more generally because she doesn't want anyone who knows "Raynor and Moth" to meet Sally or Tim).

I agree the message about being homeless is a very important one (I had a similar experience to you) why is it that Raynor and Moth became spokespersons for homelessness, when there are so many people who have far more true experience. It's the same when celebrities suddenly become experts on subjects that many people who are better qualified or experienced in are never heard.

It's interesting that they are renting a huge property, I would imagine they were/still are planning to start their wellness business from here. There is a lot of money to be made from courses and retreats, I can't see why else they would need a place that size if not, she can't keep writing books about TM's health and being underdogs forever.

If I were ever to write a book, I would make sure it was entirely fictional, I wouldn't want all of you on my case!

I've always thought this about Tim. He was,a master plasterer and builder like his father brother and at least one of his nephews. Quality tradesmen have always been in high demand. If he worked in his field of expertise full time,combined with the income of their holiday let they would have enjoyed a very comfortable income and lifestyle.
I reckon Tim thought it was beneath him to be a working class bloke who should provide for his family. He'd rather tit about working for a pittance for the National Trust as it had a far more middle class edge to it.
I think Sally is/ was infatuated with him and is emotionally immature.

I don't think it's a requirement if it privately published

But didn't he fall off a barn roof, which might have put pay to his plastering activities... unless that was Moth... 🤔

When did he fall off the roof, does anyone know?

I have found the reference to it on page 14 TSP, they are in the consultation with the specialist, Salray just says he fell through the barn roof years ago. I don't know if it's been talked about in interviews?

Mu understanding is that he had previously been under the pain clinic and that was connected to the pain in his shoulder. That pain - which Salray was attributing to falling off the roof (or through? I'm not sure which and CBA to go get a copy of the book,!) - led, directly or indirectly, to the 2015 neurology appt.

You don't get a pain clinic appt without spending some time trying ordinary pain relief and it takes time to organize investigations.

The investigations (all results normal) were done in 2011. So I'd say it's likely that any possible trigger (eg the fall through/off a roof) would have been no later than around 2009, or possibly earlier.

I can see how a shoulder injury, or comparable mechanical injury, resulting from a known physical event like falling through a roof, might put paid to working as a plasterer. What I don't see is how you'd conclude that this was caused by a neurological problem. This is another classic RW red herring. She blurs the physical symptoms that have a traceable cause with the neurological ones that don't. Although, as we've said before, if you've been referred to see a specialist neurologist, it seems odd to say you had no idea you were about to get a neurological diagnosis.