To think a lot of children may be being misdiagnosed with Autism & Adhd

[Dontyoujustlovethebritishsummertime]

When it could really be Pans/pandas?

Definitely not, the majority of parents I know would much prefer their children to be just Nd

Right, then what on earth do you suggest these poor parents and children do to help them out of this hell??

@ByGreyWriter I'm not sure if diagnosing personality disorders in children or teenagers is a good idea. Their personalities are still forming surely?

Is it not commonly known that girls get diagnosed with EUPD incorrectly and it is often in fact ASD? A autism presents differently in girls than boys and girls mask

Many many girls get told they are EUPD which is ‘hard to treat’ and this has hugely disadvantaged and stigmatised them with a mental health condition when they are in fact autistic and it is missed and they don’t get the help they need

we should not be trying to diagnose more children with personality disorders 😳

@mostimportantaspect Yes and also women and girls who have experienced severe trauma being diagnosed with eupd when they really have ptsd.

I don't think so. It's not just one appointment and there is a diagnosis there and then, it's a build up of endless reports from nurseries, school, parents, GP's. It takes a really long time and there is pre-assessments, sleep assessments and numerous appointments which are long and difficult. Very very unlikely children are being diagnosed because they've had a couple of tantrums. Emotional disregulation happens with all children but with ASD and ADHD they are projected in a different way.

*Autistic girl mum here fyi who got pushed around for years by clinicians trying to justify she had a mental health issue, so her autism got missed and she completely failed in school and got no help or support until it was too late

I always notice on these threads the difference between mums of girls and boys, boys mothers usually report a very early diagnosis and very convinced this is because their boy was very obvious ND so it was presenting text book

girls are also obvious but they get mislabelled and treated differently. They get told they have EUPD and get diagnosed ASD very late

You cannot get your girls onto the ASD pathway that early. No one will listen to you. No one joins up the dots. Girls mask. Often being emotionally deregulated in school is the only symptom they show to a teacher

Girls they get put into CAHMS for emotional dysregulation (blamed on puberty and social groups etc) and you even get accused of them having some kind of trauma.

The thing is there’s been a massive uptick in adults getting diagnosis not just children. I think it’s symptom recognition and societal acceptance of it. People also now prefer to label something in hopes of accessing therapy than just ignore it and pretend it’s not there.

Sorry I wasn't referring to just girls, I was referring to both male and females being assessed. My DS was diagnosed just before he was 5 but it was clear a few years prior, he was very textbook in the early stages of his development then it became more obvious as he got older. I don't have experience in girls being diagnosed ASD, as I only have boys and my experience may have been different but I have been through the full battle of fighting for a diagnosis and I know it's not just as easy as a 1 and done appointment where you walk away with a diagnosis. I have had conversations with many parents with daughters who are battling to get them diagnosed, which is really sad and unfair on both their child and the parents.

Yes, a lot of girls diagnosed with EUPD will be autistic.

It would be very unusual to diagnose a minor with a personality disorder. It's not usually considered the right age for this sort of thing. A lot of mental health conditions don't even start to emerge until later teens/early adulthood.

Girls usually end up getting a misdiagnosis of a MH issue and being teens who can no longer cope and then getting a diagnosis of autism, so we are talking up to a decade later than a typically presenting boy. It’s a very different kind of fight and the journey is very protracted as everything is biased towards diagnosing male presentation. No one says boys walk away with a diagnosis and that’s it, but you will likely have had an ECHP from age 6 as the package of diagnosis. Whereas girls spend years in and out of mental health services with no answers, being blamed for your parenting, no ECHP and stigmatised as having an emotional unstable personality disorder as a young female (often with an ED on top of all this)

I feel very very strongly that everyone who thinks there is an over diagnosis of autism has no idea what women and girls have to go through to get the same treatment as males

It’s not unusual. It’s very common, often it’s a suspected or working diagnosis. Girls presenting with signs similar to EUPD should undergo an autism assessment rather than end up with a loose diagnosis of EUPD

the fact they get to teens and early adult hood without even an autism assessment is the crime in itself

Can anyone recommend a dr who diagnosis adults with pandas please? Thanks

Everyone I know in the mental health profession wouldn't diagnose a minor with a mental health condition in general. It's just not good practice most of the time. I do always encourage women diagnosed with EUPD to consider autism as a potential alternative.

I personally found it much easier to get my DD diagnosed as autistic. Sometimes you just have to hit the right professional. We did. My sons weren't diagnosed till several years later. They don't have a typical male presentation. Of the three most common presentation types, theirs is more 'female'. My DH, OTOH, is very typically male presenting in his autism.

Absolutely this!!!!!

It’s well known that autism is under diagnosed particularly in girls and the above is pretty much exactly what my daughter went through. What is shocking is the amount of families I alone came across on paediatric wards whilst my daughter was being treated who had experienced exactly the same as us.

It’s not ok and no longer excusable. I think mental health services are maybe becoming better aware but schools have a long way to go.

@ByGreyWriter I just think that there are ways to support teenagers with those kind of problems without slapping a lifelong label of a personality disorder on them when they are going through a time of enormous changes anyway

This sounds like my teen. He started with OCD after lockdown and I put it down to having his early teens suddenly disrupted, the isolation etc.
It has been ignored that this was a sudden onset and also that he was deficient in folate and b12 - we've hopefully rectified the deficiencies.
At camhs we were told very autistic and wait for a diagnosis. We're still waiting.
My happy, easy going child changed overnight.
I think autism is overshadowing other problems that could be helped and are dangerous in themselves if ignored (b12 deficiency).

@ByGreyWriter autism has a formal assessment process. Unlike PD’s which pretty much are provisional likely diagnosis which can not actually be definitively diagnosed. I feel like you don’t really know what you are talking about autism is not a personality disorder at all and one has a real assessment process, it is not something someone will slap a label on you and ruin your life with it. You are tested. Young children with behaviour challenges should be tested. If they are not autistic they will not get a diagnosis?

The point is no girl should be suffering until teenage years to get one of the EUPD diagnosis. People should listen to women and girls rather than brand them as ‘irrational’ ‘selfish’ ‘hormonal’. Not so long ago women were locked up during their periods and lobotomised as deemed mentally unwell due to PMT. I see here teen girls are being viewed as ‘arrogant’ and ‘narcissistic’

This is just cruel. Girls are not treated the same as boys it’s a fact

@Dontyoujustlovethebritishsummertime I'm curious about how much you've looked into this.
I know strep can be a big factor/trigger and after COVID there were strep outbreaks. Do you think this is mirrored in an increase in pans?

www.theguardian.com/science/2022/dec/02/fourth-child-dies-in-uk-after-contracting-step-a-infection

I've seen one child with what looked like PANDAS in a thirty year teaching career, the change was sudden and frightening for all involved. I don't know what the diagnosis ended up being or if one was ever pursued.

This is something that makes my heart sink. As a mother of a child who is awaiting an ASD diagnosis, it worries me so much that we are misdiagnosing.