To think a lot of children may be being misdiagnosed with Autism & Adhd

[Dontyoujustlovethebritishsummertime]

When it could really be Pans/pandas?

So you're talking about one specific case? That's not very scientific.

If I wanted to abuse a child, going for an ADHD diagnosis would be the furthest thing on my mind. There would be much easier ways and avoiding the whole process and the attention it would bring would be a priority, surely?

I'm not sure it will happened with ADHD but I could see something happening with autism. To be honest, I think it needs to happen. It covers such a wide spectrum it doesn't carry much meaning. If someone tells me their child is autistic, I don't even know what that means. Are they in nappies at 20 or coming top of their class at university - or anything in between? I'd like that to be refined.

I think some children being diagnosed over a video link may well be misdiagnosed.

the NICE criteria for assessment mentions needing to observe the child, but it was written before covid.

i think it inherently meant that the assessor spent time in the same room as the child. Some assessment centres are playing fast and loose with how they interpret this, to make big profits.

Absolutely it is as no diagnosis is needed for trauma. Trauma is a normal response not abnormal.

I have seen it with ADHD, trauma responses can easily be similar to the diagnostic criteria and given there is no medical test just opinion then it is easy for that to happen.

I have seen more than 1. The one I am thinking of is very severe and very clear cut abuse case. The children were telling us X is happening, Y is happening. Displaying the most horrific sexualised behaviour I have ever seen.

Once that child was diagnosed then everything she said or did was attributed to ADHD and the carers were off the hook.

Not really because suspicions were growing about the carers and reports were being made to children services albeit being blocked. The carers had tried deflection onto others claiming they were the abusers but that got scuppered when the falsely accused could produce evidence proving them liars. They tried everything. Abusers will go to extreme lengths to cover their tracks.

Sadly other agencies also have reported abuse since and have been met with the 'nope said child has ADHD so it is not abuse' line. There was no mistaking the abuse as a child that age would not know what they declared without ever seeing it.

That all sounds extremely unusual and doesn't gel with any personal or professional experiences I've had.

Sure there are always bad eggs but reputable professionals don't go being pressured into giving out a diagnosis and do know the difference between trauma and ADHD (granted having ADHD can be traumatic in a NT world).

Yes, was a bit worried!

I have heard of Pandas before and its similarity to autism. Mine showed traits from babies though.

I admit from your thread title I came in ready for a battle, but while I don't believe autism/ADHD are commonly being misdiagnosed I do think there should be far more awareness raised about PANS/PANDAS.

I am autistic with ADHD, as are many of my family and friends, and we've all had pervasive symptoms from early childhood. From birth, probably. In fact, I don't know anyone either diagnosed or suspected who hasn't had lifelong traits. The diagnostic process is designed to weed out sudden-onset cases, and it seems to work quite well.

I'm not saying there aren't cases in which PANS/PANDAS could be misdiagnosed as autism/ADHD. I think a more likely scenario might be that in some children, who have had lifelong autism/ADHD symptoms and therefore met the diagnostic criteria, may find something like PANS/PANDAS brushed off as a part of their pre-existing neurodiversity. Have it viewed as simply an unexplained worsening of symptoms, or the onset of co-morbid OCD. In general I think PANS/PANDAS needs far more research and far more awareness around it, because even if it's not misdiagnosed as autism or ADHD I get the feeling it goes vastly underrecognised.

Not unusual in my experience. When working in safeguarding it is very common. We live in a ND world as all are ND.

Yeah and I'm the person who you'd refer to and would make decisions. I don't agree but you obviously have seen at least one instance to make you think that it's easy to do that.

That isn’t true. Trauma isn’t always diagnosed as something it isn’t.

While many experience trauma, which can be normal throughout life, how people respond to trauma or see trauma or what they perceive as trauma can be abnormal and lead to a diagnosis. It is wrong to say otherwise.

If trauma never needed to lead to a diagnosis there wouldn’t be national CAMHS services set up to to assess/diagnose/treat DC with trauma.

I think things like PANS/PANDAS as a possible alternative to autism also gives false hope and attracts vulnerable parents to support groups.

We have a huge family history of autism - its clear going back generations as well as more recent formal diagnoses. One of my relatives can't cope with their child being diagnosed autistic. They have spent years cycling through various other possible diagnoses and treatments- homeopathy, dietary and supplement changes etc. They are desperate to find a cause that is theoretically curable instead of autism. I'm actually really glad they haven't yet come across this yet, as I thibk they would get sucked in.

This is difficult isn’t it! At what age do you think his behaviour became more ‘normal’. I think we do expect quite a lot from toddlers / preschoolers these days.

We do not live in a ND world at all. That declaration in itself raises red flags

Re safeguarding, I have never ever experienced views like that. If anything a ND diagnosis brings more awareness of vulnerability as it’s well known ND children and young people are at a higher risk of abuse.

Children and young people with autism and ADhD are also at higher risk of experiencing trauma because of their conditions.It needs to be remembered that trauma experienced by ND young people is harder to treat.

This highlights the harm in giving kids diagnosis-by-internet. Info about PANDAS is spread by online advocacy groups and isn't widely recognised by doctors. This leads parents into the hands of quacks and charlatans. For most children, a course of antibiotics is going to do more harm than good, and homeopathy is going to do nothing beyond the placebo effect.

Given the 'symptoms' marry up for both then yes I can see how it is easily done.

Do you diagnose trauma? Why do diagnosis go in patterns? What will be the next 'trend'? Did you misdiagnose when bipolar was the latest trend or is there another reason for the sudden decline?

Absolutely we do as all are ND.

The only reason a child is vulnerable to abuse is being in the vicinity of an abuser. Remove that and no child is vulnerable.

I am not a psychiatrist. Only they can diagnose those kinds of conditions.

I think the next 'trend', though it's a real leap forward in my opinion, is further understanding of epigenetics and increased knowledge of genetic contribution to things previously believed to be environmental.

Children are vulnerable by nature. A lot of ideas in your posts that are a bit odd.

Apologies for the way that was stated. It sounds a bit harsh.

I think you may be right OP. I work with someone who's daughter has PANS/PANDAS and the symptoms started abruptly after she had covid and strep at the same time. The NHS originally tried to diagnose her with autism even though she was 10 and the symptoms came on abruptly with no previous history. She sought a second opinion privately and her daughter was diagnosed with PANS/PANDAS. She was prescribed antibiotics and possibly some other meds I'm not sure and her symptoms improved quite a lot. Many people even doctors haven't heard of it so it can easily be misdiagnosed as autism or something else.

Ah thought you were with saying you were part of it. Psychiatry - the joke of the medical world! Or non-medical world! At least you aren't one of those!

Trend is what happens. Exploring how diagnosis do go in trends is very interesting to look at and it makes you wonder why that happens.

There would have to be a development in science for that to happen and it hasn't yet in that field. The next trend will be more stigma as it always has been.

It is not odd to use words properly. ND relates to all people, there is no typical brain or way of processing things.

So you are not an inclusive person?