Thread 14: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 13 Observer items currently available on their online 'The real Salt Path' page: The real Salt Path | The Observer

3 more from The Observer:

‘Hope is extinguished’: CBD patients respond to Salt Path...

The real Salt Path | The Observer (The Slow Newscast)

‘We thought: it can’t be the Salt Path couple – they’d ha...

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5386458-thread-13-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to read at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently 16 interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for thirteen very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Are we all becoming Hyperglycaemic from all the fudge?
Have shares in Cadbury's gone up?
Can we remain cheerful in the face of such shameless glumwashing?
Will I need to fill up with much petrol this thread for the drive-by scoldings?
Will our Chloe H get exclusive interviews with the disgruntled peregrine, tortoise and Hollywood rabbits?
What has our Simon A got to say about this, preferably in verse?

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

I'm never been 100% convinced by SW's descriptions of nature, particularly regarding peregrine falcons!

Try a vision of GA & JI dancing naked in the rain as an antidote.😀

As an aside, I once saw an elderly man (and I mean probably around 80 years old, not the Walkers' version of elderly-at-50!) hiking in the peak district in nothing but a sun hat, walking sandals and a turquoise G string.

Sorry back to topic -

😂

There is a picture of her on her IG wearing the same dress at Hartland point, so maybe same area?
And maybe the weather is a clue, they had rain when they were closer to LE I think.

www.instagram.com/raynor.winn/p/BUjIilaBS2I/?hl=en

Map

The yellow thing might be a rain cover for the rucksack?

looks more like a yellow Thermarest sleeping mat but I could be wrong

The self-inflatable thing mentioned in TSP that imo no weight-conscious packer would ever take on a long hike?

Is the book called On Winter Hill because ot’a set in winter?

I thought it was set up north on Winter Hill which gave the book its’ name? Or maybe that’s why she needed to do the walk in winter because being on Winter Hill in winter is… fitting for whatever she is glumwashing this time round!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Hill_(North_West_England)

Regarding the possibility of Raymoth having walked sections of TSP before 2013, wouldn't this have been a bit difficult if they were dependent on the income from renting the barn to pay the rent etc. Disappearing off to walk the SWCP in July/Aug would have been peak holiday season on the Llyn peninsula. If Moth lost his job at the NT property in 2007, the barn income would have been pretty critical for them. Plus we know they went to France a few times in a caravan (2004 and presumably 2007 when they purchased the house in the Village du Dropt)

More likely 2004 not 2007

I think you have inadvertently supported @weneedthetruth’s point. Sickle cell trait means that a person has one copy of the gene that causes sickle cell disease and one normal copy. They usually have no symptoms of sickle cell disease and lead a normal, healthy life but in some cases they may experience the severe complications of sickle cell disease. It is not “obviously nowhere near the full blown disease”.

Lots of people are speculating about Moth’s health and putting 2 + 2 together and making 3069 without any knowledge or understanding eg there was speculation on the last thread about Moth having a brain tumour because SW writes that the consultant talks about an MRI and “brain mass”. The consultant will have been referring to an MRI to see if there is any loss of brain mass due to CBD. It is sometimes possible to see shrinkage in parts of the brain in the brains of people with CBD.

TBH, I think The Observer’s coverage of Moth’s illness has been a bit below the belt because they don’t have any real evidence and I don’t think CH really understands the subject. For example, she blithely says in the podcast that Moth has CBS not CBD, which can be caused by “lots of things”. True. But all of them lead to neurological degeneration and early death. There are no “good” or curable diagnoses.

We should remember that Moth does have a diagnosis of CBS. As our “medical correspondent” pointed out in a previous thread, having a life limiting diagnosis comes with a huge psychological burden… even if the diagnosis now turns out to be wrong.

I don’t doubt that MothRay believe that walking helps with his symptoms but I think their belief comes from a lot of denial and confirmation bias. Better to believe that and have hope than accept Moth is not going to get better. IMO, PRH should shoulder most of the responsibility for giving CBD sufferers false hope. It’s clear that SW doesn’t really understand things like neuroplasticity. PRH should have got a medical opinion on her bizarre hypotheses rather than a legal opinion on how not to be held responsible for anyone falling for SW’s snake oil theories.

I would add that it is not relevant whether SW retrofitted the diagnosis or omitted to say that Moth has an indolent form of CBD when it comes to giving false hope to readers. The false hope comes from her claims that walking relieves Moth’s symptoms and her pseudoscientific theories. PRH could have fact checked her theories.

I have namechanged since earlier threads, I am not a SW supporter! I do think there is a lot of incorrect and unfair speculation and accusations about Moth’s health though. I feel differently about the embezzlement…

CH made an interesting point about public interest in one of the earlier podcasts. She set out to investigate a public interest story - whether Moth was faking his illness. There isn’t any evidence that he is. He has a genuine diagnosis. What she found instead was a lot of skeletons in the cupboard that are of interest to the public but not necessarily (as she says herself) justifiably “in the public interest” to publish. It feels to me like maybe The Observer has pushed speculation about Moth’s CBD to justify their story. If he has been misdiagnosed, that is not MothRay’s fault.

At least his own peak was not on show.

What year was that roughly?

The photo in the DM was 2004 but they must have gone to France in 2007 when they made the property purchase to sign the relevant documents at the notaire's office.

I was in a relationship (and briefly married) to someone who was a pathological liar. I mentioned it in my very first post on here. He also had narcissistic personality disorder (diagnosed, not just my opinion!) - unfortunately I was completely taken in by him as I was in a vulnerable state when we first met. He was very nearly the end of me. SW's antics remind me so much of him - the MO is exactly the same, the 'voice' in her writing so similar, it's uncanny.

No, regarding when he left the NT.
Ros Hemmings said it was around that time, and she probably knows as she worked there as well, but the 2004 date from an unnamed source gets mentioned as fact here all the time.

@TurraeaFloribunda

I take your points about the details of illness but don't think Chloe Hadjimatheou has been unfair. Moth is repeatedly referred to as terminally ill and weak yet he completes an incredibly tough walk on very little decent food, doesn't even have medication at the start and is still here 18 years later.

Ah ok. My source was pretty adamant that it was 2007, but I guess he might have been wrong. According to him, TW interviewed his ex for the job he was leaving at the NT when he left in 2007.

Floribunda makes fair points. My main issue has always been the embezzlement. I have been drawn to speculate on the health aspects but in the main I do believe that Moth is ill. My issue with the health aspects would be that RW pounced on this and the loss of home at the same time. At no point that I am aware of has she ever said that " it is extremely mild, atypical and very indolent". Or have I missed something?

@TurraeaFloribunda I completely agree that speculation on someone’s health is distasteful and inappropriate. However, I don’t agree that that Moth has a CBS diagnosis - I haven’t seen anything saying he does have this.

It was - easiest way to find it is on BBC Sounds, search for R4's schedule for yesterday and Robert est votre oncle. The segment in question is around 10 mins from the end. Disappointingly cursorily addressed, imo.

Lots of people are speculating about Moth’s health and putting 2 + 2 together and making 3069 without any knowledge or understanding eg there was speculation on the last thread about Moth having a brain tumour because SW writes that the consultant talks about an MRI and “brain mass”.

That is simply not true if you are talking about the real-life Tim Walker here - there was no speculation that he might have a brain tumor.
I did put forward the idea that there might be a hint towards a brain tumor as a narrative device within a series of books that we now know are to a great degree fictional.
That is absolutely not the same as speculating about a real brain tumor in a real person's head.
And 'brain mass' is a common term for a tumor.

TBH, I think The Observer’s coverage of Moth’s illness has been a bit below the belt because they don’t have any real evidence and I don’t think CH really understands the subject. For example, she blithely says in the podcast that Moth has CBS not CBD, which can be caused by “lots of things”. True. But all of them lead to neurological degeneration and early death. There are no “good” or curable diagnoses.
We should remember that Moth does have a diagnosis of CBS. As our “medical correspondent” pointed out in a previous thread, having a life limiting diagnosis comes with a huge psychological burden… even if the diagnosis now turns out to be wrong.

The problem for me is the lack of evidence that he is ill. He’s been able to do the publicity for the film, regardless of how unwell he allegedly was when Raysal did the last walk. There’s no evidence of muscle wasting in his frame, or even pain lines developing on his face. The letters they chose to share did not support the dx because it was all self-reported symptoms, and as pp said if a woman reported them she would likely have been told they were symptoms of menopause. Why didn’t they share the scans that they reported in LL? My feeling is they didn’t because it either doesn’t exist, or it doesn’t show what they claimed in the book it shows, that “Moth’s lights were going out”.

I don’t argue that people’s health is private and personal, but these guys have made a lot of money off the claim that he is terminally ill, and they’ve also made quite serious claims about his ability to reverse neurodegeneration and his ability to do strenuous walks even while suffering symptoms. I think we therefore have the right to interrogate these claims, because the couple themselves have put Moth’s health out there into the public domain in the process of making them. If nothing else, the charity dropping them immediately also underlines the questions around his health.

I agree with this.

I also think that as far as the other big issue - the embezzlement - is concerned, I’m not entirely convinced that just because SW paid back the stolen money, it’s no longer a matter of public interest. The reason for becoming ‘homeless’ (if they ever technically were!) was as central to TSP as terminal diagnosis. The whole book hinges on these two terrible events and the reader is led to believe that SW and TW are blameless and have been shafted by a lifelong friend which has caused their house to be repossessed. We all seem pretty much agreed that without this scenario being presented as fact, ‘unflinchingly honest’, it’s highly unlikely the book would have become so popular. It may never have been published in the first place. And on the back of TSP, with appearances, further books and a film with renowned actors, SW had made shed loads of money. She’s profited directly from her deceit.