To ask if you're planning for a proper downward spiral of quality of life

[Fragmentedbrain]

I anticipate it and I'm saving up but that will be ofc no use if the financial system collapses

Should probably do something else

Would love to know where as I’m hearing very similar complaints from family in Canada, Australia and Europe. And we can’t just arrogantly emigrate, emigres from here will be as welcome in other countries as immigrants are here and abroad.

I think there needs to be an element of realising life is tough, we’ve all been living beyond our means planet wise and financially and a simpler life is necessary and actually in many cases healthier.

We don’t need piles of stuff, to continuously eat out, buy clothes,fly, endless new tech etc. If people can’t cope with doing without all of that it’s on them.

No need for clean water to germinate seeds, grey water is fine. I think we all need to learn how to do more with less and it will probably make us better and happier people.

Humans are endlessly adaptable, that's why we are where we are now. We've just got used to not having to adapt. But we can.

Yes to staying healthy. Obviously, some people are unlucky but trying to remain fit and eating well is important.

@ClassicalQueen it really depends on personal circumstances. A younger colleague has just relocated to Dubai (teacher), a good friend has been in Portugal for a few years (tech start up) & I have 3 medical friends & family who have gone to Australia.

Would love to know where as I’m hearing very similar complaints from family in Canada, Australia and Europe. And we can’t just arrogantly emigrate, emigres from here will be as welcome in other countries as immigrants are here and abroad.

Nowhere is going to be utopia but will other places offer some a better quality of life? yes.

I am not sure why it's arrogant to emigrate, other countries have skill shortages too. But I have always assumed skilled immigrants are welcome here (my parents are immigrants) but maybe that's not the case?

Presumably your parents weren't early boomers then. My mother was born in 1936. I was born in 1960. We had foreign holidays and tennis/ballet lessons because we were wealthy. Working and the vocational middle classes didn't. DH's mother was also born in 1936 and DH in 1961. Their families had nothing of the sort. It was oil cloth and spam, despite people working hard. DH's grandma had to do a bit charring to make sure MIL and her siblings got enough to eat and shoes that fitted.

Where to start -
Food security is problematic. Too reliant on imports and big commercial farms. There are increasing problems accessing affordable seed and fertiliser which are getting worse because of fossil fuel issues. I genuinely think we are on the brink ( next decade) of a global food shortage brought on by climate change and fossil fuel reduction/ strictures, where national interests will prevent exports. People think, it’s ok, we have rain , we can grow veg like in the war - but we have a huge population now, no fertilisers, new pests thanks to increased temperatures and crops are thriving or failing miserably because of temperature and humidity changes.

And out of my wider circle eg people I went to uni with, former colleagues etc some are in Canada, UAE & the US. One of my siblings has been working in Spain for a year & is looking at staying.

Doesn’t seem to be. It appears any immigrant is an undesirable immigrant going by the rhetoric you hear ad nauseum from all parties.

USA, Canada, Australia and Europe have their own skilled workers, their young people don’t want you. They are struggling enough and re better life- you lose massively in some areas for perceived gain.

The grass is always greener and that is why we are in so much shit.

I've been poor for years, so it's not making much difference to me. If anything my standard of life is better because I've had a better paid job this last year. It's only a little more than minimum wage but even so, a difference.

I don't have a fancy life, I have my allotment, the child and I go on caravan holidays, we've got a lovely family and wonderful friends, I grow things, I cook things, and that's enough for me.

And I'll carry on with what I've got and make the best of it which is what I've had to do forever.

@RosesAndHellebores The post I replied to said "Prior to that families had very little beyond the necessities". My parents were born in the 40s so they are boomers & did grow up in poverty (they are immigrants). I assume we grew up middle class but went to a state school. Grew up in a roughish part of London because that was what my parents could afford.

@Guhd734hh I can only go by what my friends and family tell me & they are happy...

This sounds about right on which countries are attractive for those groups

None of these people were boomers though, especially not DH's grandma! You and your DH are boomers.
No one is denying the fact that some people in all generations had tough times but the boomers are the generation that lived at the time of greatest economic growth and benefited from it too. This also applies to the younger silent generation, who enjoyed a huge improvement in the quality of their lives as they became adults. I've no idea why so many people are obsessed with holidays when it comes to making comparisons. Forget holidays, buying a home is beyond the means of many young people now.

Why do you think it is arrogant to immigrate? Would you use the same argument if someone applied for a better job or took a course to improve their prospects and get a better job? Which country may be better depends on the individual, their qualifications, skills and how much they are needed abroad, their personal preferences, etc.

I do agree with the latter part of your post though but think that you are naive to say 'that's on them' or to expect most people to follow this advice. Humans will always want more, that's their nature. People are also massively over spending on credit because they feel miserable and depressed because of the deterioration in their living standards and prospects.

I agree that it will become extremely problematic. Apart from the v relevant factors that you mention, we simply have too many people on the planet now.

Depends on how old, how rich and how in demand your skills are!
Unless you have the options of getting a passport.

Not really. I mean I'm expecting taxes to rise, cost of living to keep going up, wages not to keep pace. I'm expecting to have to tighten my belt possibly.

But we have no mortgage and we have savings. I'm not expecting the financial system to collapse/my savings disappear.

I earn quite well, my job is as secure as it's possible to be. I can't see AI taking it over, at least not in the next decade. DH's job is less secure but he's due to retire in 3 years time so hopefully he makes that...if not he will just retire early.

As long as we can eat, read books, watch TV, potter in the garden, go for walks I will be happy. I'd still consider that a good quality of life. I'm not fussed about holidays, cars, etc at all.

I'd be more worried if I was younger. I worry for dd. God knows what the job market will be for her when she finishes her Masters in 2 years

Feel relieved both ours have EU passports and are good at languages. Gives them more options.

What seems to be overlooked is that we live in global end stage capitalism that depends on materialism and the trading of widgets.

If we all reduce consumption, it negatively impacts the economy. "Service" based commodities then try and fill the gap, but if you are on a low income, you're not supposed to / can't afford to engage with that.

Big tech and AI on the one hand offer "new opportunities" but is moving very fast, so planning one's career has a whiff of Russian roulette.

A huge chunk of the economy depends on data scraped from the Internet, and sold back and forth making it one of the most valuable commodities on the planet.

The paradoxical nature of it all is bewildering to say the least.

The accusations of just not understanding economics or being unwilling to work hard make me cross. There used to be a fairly standard formula for achieving a decent basic standard of living after the war and into the early 2000s. Now housing costs can take half or more of a basic wage, and everyone just shrugs and says "that's the market, get a second or third job if you want to improve your circumstances". And that's maybe fine if you are a single person, but those with families have to think of their children.

You see threads on here about children who had a "naice" or materially comfortable life, and in adulthood are struggling with family breakdown with their parents because they didn't feel prioritised or supported emotionally, yet apparently that's the acceptable price of "getting ahead".

And it's not just the economic situation that bothers me, it's the attitudes being cultivated online and politically. Everyone is primarily an economic unit, that is the whole sum of it. Then we have all the division and demonisation - any demographic can suddenly become the poster child for all the country's ills if they don'thave enoygh money to keep up, so it's no wonder some become disenfranchised and disillusioned and find it difficult to think positive, keep calm and carry on.

Planning for it for our teens. Basically working longer than we could, parking inheritance, all in hope that it gives the teens some basic options in their 20s.

I'm 48 and currently future planning. I earn well now but my DH is currently unemployed and my DD is a home educated (couldn't cope with mainstream but we couldn't get special provision) autistic teen with an uncertain future. Am in the process of buying DD a flat in our village and will let it out until she needs it to cover the small mortgage. Will have paid off the mortgage on her flat by the time I retire. Our house is paid off. I just need to keep my job / current salary for the next 12 years to top up my pension pot. However I can see AI coming for me as well as a slump in my Industry, moving lots of things to low cost countries and the current company I am working for is performing very badly so am very nervous. Hoping DH can go back to work before the end of the year and we can use his salary to pad the savings and pay off DDs flat a bit faster.

Wasn't buying a home beyond the means of most people in the 30s/40s/50s? It's quite a modern phenomena to be an owner occupier and the UK is out of step with much of Europe.

Well the Tories left a £20bn black hole that Rachel filled with a one off tax increase.... only Labour have created a £50bn blackhole in less than a year that now needs more "one off" tax increases. So they lied and will lie again and will keep putting taxes up til we are all impoverished peasants... that seems to be their plan.

I had quite a reaction to your post. You obviously have a life of some privilege to make you feel more secure as this house of cards collapses around you. Your privilege is propped up by those less secure, those to whom financial insecurity is pivotal to their everyday existence. Whether they are shop workers, factory workers, drivers, cleaners, nurses - be assured if we fall, we fall together. Your perception of ‘we’ll be alright if the country goes to shit’ is an illusion. Remember when the house of cards collapses those higher up have further to fall.