To think that if men were dumped at the first sign of aggression, maybe they’d think twice before reacting with violence?

[MyDeftLemonShark]

Spurred on by the other thread…

Sometimes there are signs and they get dismissed or downplayed. A slammed door. A thrown object. A raised voice over something minor. These are not just bad moods, they’re warning shots.

I genuinely believe if more women walked away at the first display of aggressive behaviour, some men might be forced to confront their lack of emotional regulation. But instead, society teaches women to be patient, to de-escalate, to rationalise male rage.

Of course people can have bad days but there’s a line. And I think crossing that line, especially without remorse or willingness to get help should be relationship-ending. Not a red flag we try to fix.

AIBU?

Society as a whole!

I get sooo frustrated with society ‘teaching’ us to be placid….. My daughter was kicked and bullied at school by a boy… and all we got was ‘oh it’s boys being boys’ - or ‘oh he probably like you!’ WTAF!!!

parents don’t teach their kids that no means no!!…. Kids ask for something, parents say no - kid sulks - parents give in!
Kids don’t want to kiss someone goodbye, parents black Mail with sweets etc….

I’ve always stuck to my guns with my DD… if I say no, I mean no… I’ve never reversed that to a yes!…. If she doesn’t want to kiss someone I don’t make her… it’s her body and no means no!
When the teachers at school come out with their BS about boys ‘JUST’ being boys, I’ve pulled them up on it and not settled on that nonsense being a reasonable reason …
Parents (dads and mums) need to teach their kids self respect and respect for other people, us as humans all need boundaries and consequences…. We also need to model positive relationships to our children… too often people stick with toxic partners … modelling to our kids that they should put up with it…

I have a friend who is currently escaping DA & is reporting her ex for stalking behaviour….. the police have been absolutely disgusting to her….. they’ve spoken to her is such patronising ways…. Telling her she’s the one in the wrong, wasting police time - all sorts! She’s handed in evidence of abuse - nothing! He gets away with his abuse every time… and she’s told to change her behaviour!!

It’s about time abusive behaviour is nipped in the bud way before these bullies become adults!

I believe that some men will always be angry aggressive violent etc irrespective of upbringings. It is something in their inherent character. I am referring to extremes of course.

Nature not nurture still applies.

Yep. Because here's the thing - they almost NEVER batter lumps out of women in the coffee shop, or rape them in the supermarket aisle. They wait until there are no consequences and it is safe for them.

Women tolerate immense amounts of shittery from men. All the time. Every day. Since we cannot change other people women MUST change what they are willing to tolerate.

And that is in no way manner shape or form victim blaming, I'd still lock violent men up for decades and help any woman who's been battered or raped or etc.

Pretending that this is a form of "making women do the heavy lifting" is incredibly stupid. The only thing women would be being asked to do is walk away from shitty men, the instant they show they are shitty, which makes their own lives far better anyway.

It needs to be taught from babyhood up. If a man abuses you, leave him the first time.

Men are responsible for 98 percent or more of all violent crime and that includes violent crime against men. So yep, it is VERY MUCH a gendered problem.

Nature versus nurture. Some people are wired to be angry.

Probably learned from their dads

Yes, but these men who are "wired" to be angry are always (almost always) completely capable of behaving in public. And they do. They only allow themselves the choice of enjoying being violent when it is safe and consequence free for them to do so.

It’s something I definitely did. Not just with my 2 son’s, but my DD too. Not one teen tantrum in my house as they know better than to try throwing their toys out of the pram.

Just love living alone.

You should try it OP.

No shit men coming over my threshhold. 🙂

You mean these fine specimens of men who women are desperate to have babies with then complain the delightful men are not great fathers after the 4th?

well we constantly hear ‘not all men’ so why don’t the not all men teach the other men not to attack, rape and murder women?

That's akin to psychological warfare as you'd never know what was coming.
I don't understand why you would do that to someone.
Sorry you endured such behaviours.

I think if women dumped men at the first sign of aggression, there would be fewer women trapped in difficult situations.

I don't think this would change the behavior of men, though.

Yeah

add into the mix the lovely steroids that many get at the gym now and the cocaine at the weekend, the extreme porn and online influences telling them they deserve subservience.

on the flip side
fewer men can afford to keep a house on one salary, so more women have to work hence they are not as isolated, the internet is a great source of information and support so vulnerable women are not as alone, Clare’s law exists, not perfect but it exists.

It feels like fewer men, certainly around here, especially the faulty ones, remain in relationships into older middle aged hood than they used to. Or even get into them in the first place

there is cctv everywhere now, doorbells, dash cams

it’s about moving society along and it must be having an effect but there are men around now who are furious because they are being left on the shelf - and hope fewer children are being brought up by them

let’s hope the only people who have the misfortune to have to touch their knobs are their doctors when they say cough! (At least they can wear gloves)

Because they have full lives with jobs and nice mates and a home, relationship and kids

and they get called Brads and are despised as much as the women but just not confronted

Dumping a man because he’s aggressive isn’t teaching him a lesson. It’s declining to have anything to do with him ever again.

He can then choose, all by himself, to have a series of short foul tempered relationships, or work out what he needs to do.

I voted YABU as it sounds like victim blaming.

It's not just the victim-blaming that makes this such a pointless thought exercise. It encapsulates a real weakness with the MN brand of feminism which is seeing men and women entirely, and solely, through the class of their sex.

Women are not homogeneous and do not - and will not - act as a class like this. I personally act like this, as do most of my friends. All that means is that men who want to be with me and the progressive, intelligent middle-class women in my social circle are deterred from acting violently - not that any of them are prone to doing that in the first place, hence why they are our partners and friends.

If you really want to fix male violence on a societal level you're going to have to think a lot more deeply than entry-level gender essentialism.

Most male violence is enacted on other men, from the lowest levels of drunk louts squaring up to each other after closing time to the old men responsible for territorial wars across the world. Very often the "rationale" is in fact to protect women - but only the right sort of women. The native women, the women who behave correctly and toe the line. Look at how protecting women and children was a key trope of last year's anti-migrant riots, but 2 in 5 of them had been reported for domestic violence.

But once you understand that then you understand that there will always be a significant group of women who seek to benefit from the status quo whereby if they're the right sort of women, they get to be protected by male violence.

And frankly male violence cannot be understood decontextualised from everything else that makes up traditional male (and female) gender roles - these are whole packages of behaviour that are still idealised, even fetishised, by society at large. MN is actually one of the worst places for it I've seen. Look at all the dating threads where most posters want traditional male behaviour only - a provider, a protector (wtf do you think they'll be doing that protecting with if not the implied threat of violence?). You cannot demand that men adhere to their traditional gender role without accepting that it comes as a whole package that includes violence being rewarded.

No it’s for women to take responsibility for themselves. If you stay after big red flags then that’s on you. You Made the choice.

What about their dads teaching them?

Absolutely fathers should be leading this. They are the direct role models to young boys and young girls(future relationship model).

Often the fathers need to learn themselves first though and whilst there is mens groups and therapy, movements by tony porter and Jackson catz its all there. Most men don't seem inclined or clued up in how to find help, that's if they recognise the need for it in the first place. It often takes skills these men don't even have to comprehend the start of change. It's hard work. What does it gain them in their eyes?

It's also judged and seen as weak or unnecessary. It's not really in the majority of most men's interests within society to up expectations or change views on this. I don't know how we have the big societal change we need. Women expecting it doesn't change a thing when men only respect other "alpha" mens views.

I understand what you're saying. I do see a female role - it's often ime mothers. But no way will I blame all mums for their son's behaviour. It is never so simple.

The examples I think of, that are so horrible to me, are enabling and infantalising mum's who don't hold son's accountable. There are many cases we've seen in the media where the mother is beyond enabling, narcissistic at least ( yes, this is a common problem not a buzz word).

My male sibling and my mother are an example of this. So messed up.

In this case of my own, dad passed away. His role might have been much more important in demonstrating how to behave.

My conclusion is that good father's are very important to role model and support their wives demonstrating respect and love and importantly accountability.

Some men are born wrong and sometimes the best intentions can't help with parents. I'd say odds are dramatically improved with good present male role models above everything.

I know personally that little things I let slide ( emotional), gave the signal that I was low on boundaries and further behaviour was therefore ok. So I do see the intent of your post.