To think rich people steal money all the time and that’s often why they’re rich?

[MyAmusedOpalCrab]

We hear so much about “hard work” and “smart investments” but let’s be honest, so many rich people didn’t get wealthy by being ethical. From dodgy business practices to exploiting workers, tax dodging, insider deals and straight-up corruption, wealth often comes at someone else’s expense.

Governments bail out billionaires while ordinary people struggle to afford rent. CEOs cut wages and benefits while pocketing massive bonuses. Huge corporations find loopholes to avoid taxes while the rest of us get squeezed.

Obviously not every rich person is a thief but AIBU to think that a lot of them are? That the system is rigged in their favour and they keep getting richer by bending or outright breaking the rules?

🎯 Yep

Just leaving this here:

https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449?utm_campaign=social_x_posts&utm_source=x&utm_medium=social

I think it's notable in the numbers of people not working for one reason or another, depression, stress, anxiety that means people claim benefits rather than working, the lack of service you're regularly reading about in general (which seems to infuriate people beyond measure) basically apathy among those who keep the world turning by doing the jobs that are desired and relied upon.
While they afford a decent standard of living and bills are paid because they're affordable and there's a little left over for a life of being more than just a tool for someone else's profit, I think people largely get on with it, but when they're seeing increased profits by companies they work for while the wages they earn don't pay the bills, while those companies cut staff and demand more work, and whilst the companies they pay those bills to also announce increasing profits while they put the prices up again, and then the working population are told it's because they're lazy and don't work hard enough.
More work for the same or less money, being told by the company to deliver yet more, dealing with customers/clients who aren't happy and then they go home and can't afford to put their heating on.

It's not unreasonable to want to have something for yourself and not devote your entire existence to supporting someone else's (or several someone else's) profit margin - exactly the same sentiment that is displayed when people talk about taxing the rich more - What's the point of doing it all in the first place when you're getting very little from it?

Really? It doesn't bother you that the wealthy (the 1% of the 1%) leach the money out of the system constantly and by the power created by that wealth they impose ways of servitude on the rest of us?
Benefit cheats are amateurs compared to the super rich at ripping the rest of us off.
We are in a late(ish) phase of capitalism called neo-liberalism, which promotes the idea that if the wealthy are allowed to get more wealthy then some of the wealth 'trickles down'. It would be more accurate to call this system 'trickle up', since that is what happens - the wealth of the community trickles (sometimes floods) up to the wealthy.

you seem to actually believe that you have a right to others people money just because they have a lot of it. It’s extraordinary entitlement. I think people should pay their fair share but the problem is there are people paying more than their fair and some not paying anything (long term benefits / asylum seekers etc). Your attitude, and the peopled who share it, is why UK struggles so much. Top 1% already pay a third of all income tax. I wish billionaires felt compelled to share their wealth but I don’t think I have a right to it automatically because I have less. That’s called theft.

It’s actually called fairness. Elon Musk’s personal wealth is enough to eradicate world hunger. Imagine being in a position to do something as miraculous as that.

Ahhhh…fairness. The chase to communism and then what replaces wealth inequality is corruption, and suppression of free speech.

CapnFlint · Today 01:04
As Balzac said “Behind every great fortune lies a great crime”

What was Anthony Bamford of JCB’s crime?

I never said it said it doesn't bother.
My wording is clear. I said 'more' deliberately.

Both bother me. On a daily basis, one bothers me more than the other.

Grammar is important- comprehension is more important.

Imagine building a company so large and successful that it provides swathes of employment, enabling home ownership, heath benefits and a comfortable life for the employees to raise families. And who knows they may even love their jobs - imagine that.

But hey, it’s just not fair that Elon Musk built his business - he’s a bad bad rich person and his wealth should be mine mine mine…

And I’ve said before, the Covid fraud was diabolical and I hope Mone gets a lengthy jail term, but when tax lost to evasion in 2023/24 is estimated to be £46bn and 60% of that is small / mid sized traders, people in this country ought to be pissed off. 40% of corporation tax due by SMEs is evaded. 40%!!! These people are well and truly taking the piss!

If you have Oil or Elon money you might think could we eg cure cancer? How much to do that? If at the end of their life such people said I spent 20 billion and cured Cancer that would be a great epitaph. Past a certain point their money is making money and can write off other money for research etc

Top 1% in UK earn £160k +

on that they would pay 11 times more income tax than someone earning £30k even though earn 5.3 times more. How are they leaching exactly? They also pay 30% of all income tax. So when 16,000 millionaires leave uk and go somewhere else the system breaks. Ideology doesn’t not = sound economics. Sometimes you have to do unpalatable things to drive a good economy which ultimately builds better societies because the state can afford to support the needy.

That isn’t what I said.

Imagine building a company so large and successful that it provides swathes of employment, enabling home ownership, heath benefits and a comfortable life for the employees to raise families. And who knows they may even love their jobs - imagine that.

And then imagine giving the bulk of the money you make - which is more than you could spend in ten lifetimes - to eradicate world hunger or cure cancer. It would make you immortal.

Agree - and would love him to give it away to good causes. Equally, Elon musk did pay £455m in personal tax last year. Plus imagine the total gov take from all corporation tax, employee income tax, job creation etc etc it would be billions. Then think about having just a couple of people like that in this country. Building skilled labour factories, creating jobs, generating billions in tax. So the unpalatable is that one guy is obscenely rich and sadly selfish but the upside generally for society for USA is huge.

I’m genuinely interested to know why.

Assuming in both scenarios the person isn’t doing anything illegal, then why have a problem with one and not the other? They’re both working within the system to take what they are entitled to from the public purse. Is it because one is seen as doing something while the other sits on their arse? But you can avoid an awful lot of tax while sitting on your arse.

But so many do. Loads of them build foundations, donate to universities for research. Walk around say, Berkeley university in SF - it’s mind blowing the amount of money which had poured in from the tech billionaires. The buildings and research facilities are incredible.

That just means they privatise a load of money and then dole it out to their pet causes that should be paid for out of central taxation. It shouldn't take a billionaire's favour to fund this stuff. And there's a whole lot of crucial research into e.g. fashionable diseases that doesn't get funded. Think about why women's health is under-researched for instance.

Was also going to say we have Govt projects eg HS2 that are eg £90 billion but mysteriously costs rise and 90 becomes 100 or more. Costs rise by multiples of 1,000 million?? NHS computer systems and Defence projects are other famous cost over runs. X is going to cost 10 billion. Oh sorry we got our sums wrong, it's now doubled in price. Somehow it's free money.

No need for communism for corruption and suppression of free speech, plenty of it about already

We have to encourage home grown billionaires to keep growing their businesses.

Generally speaking they don’t do it alone. They have investors on board to help spur on growth. The investors can be British but there is a dearth of tech investment in the UK - so start up tech entrepreneurs, for example, attract investment from forward thinking US fund managers.

The Tories - with all their infighting and brexit - didn’t do anyway near enough to build a successful tech based economy - (which we desperately need btw).

Labour seem to be on a mission to tax the hell out of anyone who builds and business or employs people. We badly need more large businesses flourishing here. That means making it easier to employ people and easier to attract investment.

You're not wrong OP.
There are billions of pounds in unclaimed benefits because the system is deliberately rigged to be complex . Many people have no idea they are legally entitled to claim.
Rich people are very tight with their money, those I have known anyway. They can afford the best lawyers and financial advisors with expert knowledge on how to play the system and find all the legal loopholes and how to squirrel away funds in hard-to-trace offshore accounts etc.
Why do Amazon etc get away without paying millions in tax? Because our government (and previous governments) allows them to.

Isn’t it a balance. Tax paying for gov choices of research. Then charitable donations for the billionaires pet projects as you put it.
Although - some of the Government’s choices of research seem fairly dubious.

Anyone remotely defending billionaires gets my sympathy in a way - we’re all having our world ruined by them but at least some of us are clever enough to see where it’s going. Anyone who doesn’t see the issue with the 1% is a bit dim really.

So these people donate to already wealthy institutions for kudos and status. How about the obscenely wealthy putting their money to work in life changing ways to benefit people who really need it?