To think that surgeons, while obviously skilled, often have a certain arrogance that makes them difficult to work with?

[WildHazelCritic]

I completely respect the level of skill, training, and responsibility that comes with being a surgeon but I’ve noticed that many seem to have a certain… arrogance? Of course, confidence is necessary in that field but at what point does it tip over into being dismissive or difficult to work with?

I’ve heard stories (and witnessed myself) of surgeons being rude to colleagues, unwilling to take input, or acting like they’re above everyone else. Is this just part of the culture or do some surgeons lean into the “god complex” stereotype a little too much?

AIBU to think their attitude could sometimes use a reality check? Or is this just a misunderstanding of what the job requires?

No it's not. Psychopath doesn't mean murderer, even though it's become common parlance for it.

I worked with many surgeons - like in all professions there were arrogant gits who were disdainful towards nurses, and their patients, but I have to say most were reasonable people and easy to work with.

One of the nicest was David Nott who is known for his volunteering work in war zones.

My obstetrician was an arrogant, rude woman. I saw her reduce other mothers in my shared ward to tears.Unlike the on call obs who took pity on me when my sweep didn't work, at 38 weeks, with enormous twins. She was raging at that.
My mother's ortho surgeon was a rude snobbish sexist fucker. Suggested just taking her home and keeping her morphine topped up rather than amputating her necrotic leg. I am in awe of the skills they must have, but i can't understand why they aren't more empathetic members of the medical profession.

My guy's name began with S.

I had more faith in him than any other person I've ever met.

Also, partially certain types of people apply to these types of jobs. But also, they also act in the way they do, because they can. There are no consequences for being rude. It doesn't matter what colleagues and patients think of you. Patients are your customers, and they have to accept what they get and can't really go elsewhere. And if you have a choice, if you're good enough, it doesn't matter.

That being said, i use mainly private healthcare services. Especially after I started working in public health care.

To be fair that wasn’t arrogance, and it wasn’t predominantly surgeons (main issue was anaesthetic, with a couple of ENT surgeons trying to help). They became too task focused on intubating her, and lost sight of the fact she wasn’t being ventilated.

Elaine Bromily’s husband (a pilot) was very keen on bringing in human factors training, not on criticising the individuals.

My daughter’s neurosurgeon was a lovely man with a naturally smiling face. Reassuring at a particularly terrifying point of my life.

I think the "psychopath" trope is lazy and inaccurate. It is going to take a certain kind of confidence and mindset to cut into living flesh, but I'm just thankful some people have it and the training and skills needed.

When I had eye surgery, fully awake, I felt very aware for the time I was on the table I was An Eyeball to my (actually very pleasant) surgeon. I can see the need for such a focus.

My parent had a brain tumor.
I can remember the rudest, most arrogant man coming into their room with a following trail of medical students, and introducing himself as the surgeon. Absolutely no bedside manner at all.

Later when i was talking to a friend, they said well, if you’re going to have someone taking a scalpel to your brain, you’re probably best they have a bit if confidence, you wouldn’t like it if they were a hand wringing nervous type! I think they were probably right.

Ultimately the surgery was futile and he was at least a bit nicer when he said there was nothing further to be done.

@olympicsrockyou've obviously never been groped by one as a student nurse. I have back in the 80s. So powerful they felt they could do anything!

I’m in awe of all the surgeons I’ve met, all the surgeon I know on a personal level and all the surgeons who I watch on all the UK tv documentaries that have surgeons in them ( there are a lot of them and I watch every one I can)
Ive never once witnessed any surgeon be anything other than amazing. Sometimes they’ve been busy but that will be because they are busy.

I’ve witnessed plenty of amazing hard working nurses too but, unfortuanately, I witnessed a fair number of lazy ones too.

I come from a family of doctors/HCPs, and I've worked in hospitals (many different departments) since I was 18 (and I'm 45 now!), so have met plenty over the years! They've always been pretty polite to me, but I knew them pretty well, both in and out of work, though sometimes their bedside manner wasn't always great. Maybe it's different as I've sort of grown up and worked around them for so long. When I did outpatient clinics with them, they'd always include me when teaching/explaining things to their juniors...likewise, when I did theatre placements or worked on the surgical wards.

One thing that I will never forget though...during the pandemic, a consultant (GI surgeon) came to my ward (respiratory). I was a bit confused as I couldn't fathom which of my patients was needing to see a surgeon, but he pointed out that his elective lists were cancelled, he wasn't on call and just wanted to be an extra pair of hands to help. He volunteered himself to work as an HCA and help the nurses with patient care. It was lovely. He came up to help us every day that he could, as did other surgeons.

I was a newly qualified nurse back in the 80’s left to run an open paediatric ward. I had one of the consultants scream at me that I had given a drug incorrectly I hadn’t, I gave it how it was written up he argued with I knew how he liked the drug given, I retorted back well you didn’t give your child IM penicillin he gave it to everyone else’s child that way. He didn’t know what to say.
not just surgeons who are arrogant & not just men.

Oh, you can definitely get it in paeds too but to a lesser extent I think.

My son needed ecmo life support when he was at his most critical in PICU and the cardio surgeon who did it was definitely the stereotypical arrogant type. He tried to convince plastic surgeons that my son needed his right leg amputated when they were monitoring it daily due to septic shock. He even came over to me and said ''His leg needs to go'' and then just walked out leaving me and the nurse caring for my son that day in utter shock.

Plastic surgeons continued to monitor my sons leg daily and thankfully, it was able to be saved without amputation. The cardio surgeon was worried about his heart which wasn't doing great at the time and he did later apologise to me and explain how worried he is about his heart but still, it was crazy having a cardio surgeon try and tell plastic surgeons how to do their job.

As a dentist who frequently has to do horrible things to wide awake patients, surgeons have it easy. However, what they do is much more complex and life threatening. I really don’t care how confident or arrogant, as long as they are capable I’m happy.

It is difficult cutting into someone and you develop the ability to switch off. Since we, dentists, are generally cutting into wide awake patients you do have to switch between butcher mode and human mode frequently through a procedure and I’m now very sensitive to the signs when a patient has had enough. I think that surgeons, whose patients are more likely to be anaesthetised are much less sensitive to their patients.

I had a biopsy on my thyroid a few years ago, carried out by a young radiologist. She started out very confidently, but having successfully inserted the needle into the thyroid cyst that she was trying to drain she went to pieces when no fluid appeared. After racking her brains she realised that it was probably a colloid cyst, an uncommon cyst full of jelly rather than fluid, she then rather shakily took a biopsy and finished. I reassured her that I was fine and fully understood, since I’d had similar experiences in my career. They are great learning experiences since you never forget them and they make you a better clinician. She may have had a much more negative review from the general public.

Having psychopathic tendencies is definitely an advantage in surgery because most of us would struggle to do what we do without it. It does mean that we have a darker sense of humour and maybe suffer more mental health problems. A very eminent plastic surgeon I knew committed suicide after a long career treating head and neck cancer. Even now head and neck cancer is brutal leaving patients with severe functional deficits and it can be very dehumanising. Until recently it was almost always a death sentence. Without the pioneers who spent a lifetime attempting to “cure” their patients but inevitably failing, because surgery was the only option, then we wouldn’t have the procedures today that are now producing breakthroughs and extending life. Working on the head and neck is probably the hardest area of surgery, it’s complex and you are altering the part of your body that humanises you. Having said that head and neck surgeons are on the whole great people, maybe because they deal with what makes you you.

I think that's some Consultants in general.

Though surgery probably has a higher number.

Dont get me wrong, I love my job, but it's the politics that are really grinding on me!
Plus there has been so many changes recently its exhausting keeping up let alone doing the job.

That post was directed to @Dyra , sorry forgot to quote!

I hope your son is doing ok now

He's doing well, thanks. He's been in remission for a year next month.

My experience has been the total opposite: the anaesthetists I've met have always been really nice. A friend is married to one, and he is a lovely man.

I had a brief relationship with an orthopaedic surgeon. He was an arrogant twat with a cocaine and alcohol problem. I like to think that someone realised what a mess he was and that he's been struck off or something. And I've had 3 different orthopaedic procedures over the last 10 or so years. Two of the surgeons were arrogant and up themselves, the third was an utter sweetheart who really listened.

My dad was a psychiatric nurse, and he reckoned that all the consultants he worked with were psychopaths 🤷‍♀️

Psychiatrists are an interesting bunch aren't they. I've known some lovely ones and a couple of horrors who really shouldn't be in their jobs.

Oh that’s absolutely incredible! Are you going to do anything special for his second birthday? 🥰

We’re having a party! He had Burkitts Lymphoma so 1 year in remission is an extra big milestone. 😊