To think that surgeons, while obviously skilled, often have a certain arrogance that makes them difficult to work with?

[WildHazelCritic]

I completely respect the level of skill, training, and responsibility that comes with being a surgeon but I’ve noticed that many seem to have a certain… arrogance? Of course, confidence is necessary in that field but at what point does it tip over into being dismissive or difficult to work with?

I’ve heard stories (and witnessed myself) of surgeons being rude to colleagues, unwilling to take input, or acting like they’re above everyone else. Is this just part of the culture or do some surgeons lean into the “god complex” stereotype a little too much?

AIBU to think their attitude could sometimes use a reality check? Or is this just a misunderstanding of what the job requires?

This can be applied to anyone, at any level.
Nothing quite like being a teacher with a teaching assistant who yells at you in front of the class they are a teaching assistant not a teacher assistant so they won’t do the photocopying!😂
Oh, and before there is any pylon, the headteacher was clear that this was the teaching assistance job as she did not pay her teachers to photocopy but to use the skills for which they were paid the higher salary.

A friend of mine is a social worker, she says she has quite a few surgeons and consultants from the local main hospital on her caseloads.

Hope you’re ok op xx

except a teacher doesn't hold your life in their hands

That was my non-professional-but-informed-by-40+years-of-teaching take on the neurosurgeon who did my spinal surgery.

Anaesthetist here - as in any profession there are the good, the bad and the ugly. But spending nearly all of my working life with surgeons (I do a bit of time gassing for the medics) I see the stereotypes at play but mostly that isn’t the case. Some of the best surgeons technically I know care really deeply about their patients and are passionate about providing the best care possible. Some of the best surgeons technically are people I admire for their skills but don’t have the same empathy.

There are stereotypes which some surgeons seem to think they have to live up to and sometimes it is hard when you see the residents in those specialities try and emulate that. But a lot of the time that gets broken down by other team members who try to stop any arrogance or god complex developing further.

Do I have days when they annoy me? Yes. But that is the same with some of my anaesthetic colleagues too. Broadly I work with great people trying to do their best each day and I will take that.

I try in the teams I work with to instil the golden rule - don’t be a dick.

Surgeons rate highly for the dark triad traits ; Narcissism; Machievellianism and sociopathy

it’s by and a large what gives them the ‘god complex’ which in turn makes them hyper focused, driven, perfectionists, ambitious and able to sustain consistently high performance under pressure

I guess the bed side manner may take a hit but hey ho , on that table I want excellence not a sympathetically disposition!

Any job that’s high powered with money tend to attract a higher percentage of psychopaths and narcissists. It’s a studied fact, I can’t remember the percentage but it made a lot of sense when the article

Are you a trainee paramedic by any chance?! I was in hospital with my son last week and overheard this exact complaint from a trainee paramedic to a doctor she was shadowing. To be fair, I overheard the surgeons conversation beforehand and he did sound unbelievably arrogant!

It’s really interesting how many people mention behaviour doesn’t matter so long as they’re good surgeons…. behaviour can make a big difference to outcomes because the wider team are more likely to make mistakes when someone’s being a twit - the ‘civility saves lives’ movement recognises the impact that ‘difficult’ behaviour has and is aiming to improve that.

I had orthopedic surgery last year and my surgeon was lovely, I could tell that his staff liked and respected him. My Dad’s ophthalmologist was v. kind when Dad had his cataracts removed. Dad was v. nervous for the first op. and he really calmed him down.

But, one of my friends is an anaesthetist and she’s said that some are arrogant horrors!

Could you cut into another person? I don’t think I could. I think their talents are also their flaws, like most of us.

Watch the ex Surgeon Jed Mercurio (chap who later did Line of Duty) series ‘Bodies’ from the early 2000’s
eye opener….

Anesthesiologists literally just put people to sleep, keep them asleep and then wake them up.
its basically a technicians job or an RN's job but because it has high risk associated with it, aka "death" you have to call them doctors.

Not a trainee paramedic but that’s interesting to hear! Sounds like it’s not just me then. I get that surgeons need confidence but sometimes it really does come off as straight-up arrogance. Makes you wonder how many people have had the same reaction but just don’t say it out loud…

Yes. Like with any profession there are good ones and bad ones. But on average the biggest assholes I work with within the hospital are doctora, especially surgeons. Especially under 50yo. Once they are older, they mellow a bit.

Hierarchy in hospital is fascinating. I have to work with the hospital care staff daily and the hierarchy changes from ward to ward. Some senior doctors are arrogant know it all and refusing cooperation and demanding that everything goes through them. Some just say that nurses know beat cause they spend the most amounts of time with patients and will give opinion if needed to consider the bigger picture.

@Flyswats They have medical degrees and are fully trained doctors! I know a couple IRL.
Seriously, don’t downgrade what they do.

what do they do, beyond putting people to sleep and waking them up? And sometimes being a total asshole in the process?

100% agree with this. Human factors and civility to your team members are a huge thing in the NHS and can impact the outcome in many emergencies.

You’re right - I couldn’t do what they do either and I completely respect the skill and nerve it takes. And I agree that their strengths can also be their flaws - confidence, decisiveness, detachment… all necessary but sometimes it spills over into arrogance or lack of empathy. It’s just the way those traits show up that can make working with them difficult.

Haha, are you having a laugh?

The patient's life is literally in the hands of the anaesthetist. They are not just "keeping them asleep". They are monitoring all of their vital signs, administering meds etc.
The surgeon could not do their job if the anaesthetist was not doing theirs properly.

You literally have absolutely no clue what an anaesthetists job entails. Your ignorance is astounding.

Was this at the RVI newcastle by any chance ?

Yes, they put people to sleep and then fuck off into town for a Starbucks and reading the paper. Then they come back to wake the patient up.

every anesthesiologist I've ever met, as a PATIENT being put to sleep has been a total cunt. Every single one.

Hahaha….my medical degree, FRCA examinations and years of training say differently. But good to see my profession reduced to being technicians in your eyes.

Oh and it isn’t sleep - I could put you to literal sleep talking about pharmacology and physiology and physics and clinical measurement and many other aspects of science that goes into what I do but the drugs I give to my patients isn’t causing sleep, it is so much weirder than that!