To think that if it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving a vehicle, it must be made illegal to push a pram?

[llizzie]

I have just read this on another site which was discussing how the mobile phone is killing conversation.

  ''Saw an incident two days ago: Young mother pushing child in a pushchair was glued to her smart phone, not looking to where she was going. She was heading straight towards a fixed bollard at the side of the footpath. Last few seconds, she saw it, swerved suddenly, child rocked over to the side and hit bollard full face. Stupidity of the highest order. ''

Are you saying that it is perfectly OK to push a pram and talk on the phone at the same time?

The thread is about that, not about using a mobile phone while looking after a child.

Well yes, I think it's pretty clear that that poster thinks it's okay to use a phone while pushing a pram. In fact, it's what most people on this thread things. Because, as @Stompythedinosaur points out in her post, we only legislate things for which there is significant evidence of notable potential harm. Which is not the case in the case of a pram, a parent and a phone.

Not at all. I have nothing against mobile phones. I have nothing against mothers of young children.

Nor is the thread about that. It is about a witness who saw a woman pushing a pram who lost control because she was speaking on a mobile phone. It never occurred to me that such a thing would happen, not being able to go out without being driven.

I would be horrified if I saw a powered wheelchair user on the phone, not paying due care and attention, or someone pushing a wheelchair.doing the same.

It is irresponsible, and if it happens. It seems people will do what they like until it is declared illegal.

I think anyone walking on the pavement glued to their fucking phone and completely oblivious to everyone else around them deserves to be bitch slapped. And please don't tell me they're all taking emergency calls about their dying grandmothers, having a mental health crisis or waiting for the 4 minute warning.

Yes, it is perfectly OK to push a pram and talk on the phone. Not that I actually did it really. My youngest is 23 now and so mobile phones were much more in their infancy when mine were that age.

It is also perfectly OK to use one while looking after a child, especially if you are in the house. Nobody ever questioned whether it was OK to use a landline phone with a child in the house. A mobile should be no different. Obviously you have to pay attention to what said child is doing and some people don't do so well at that.

Using a phone while driving is clearly illegal and fuckwitted.

Without a law, would we be able to tell them to stop? It took years for it to be an offence for drivers. Now drivers who need the phone with them can have equipment to enable them to drive without holding a phone in their hands and one hand on the steering wheel.

I typed it out as soon as the first posters were confused.

I was not the witness, which was why I quoted it on here, rather than have anyone think I saw this happen. It was recorded on another site by an eyewitness.

The problem is that baby got hurt. You're not communicating this well. Obviously that mum is in real trouble, especially as child might have died. I do think it's stupid that parents in flimsy prams don't watch where they go, but problem here is that there was harm to baby. Not general usage of phones.

There is no judgement of others in the thread. It is a debate about whether it should be illegal to take a phone call with one hand and pushing a pram with an infant with the other. Obviously, from this thread, everyone does it and no one thinks it is wrong. Why?

You were not on the phone, but your attention was elsewhere.

I asked for comments on a witness statement. I do not know any more than that. It is illegal for a motorist to drive a car with one hand and hold a phone in the other. It is illegal for a reason: someone might get hurt.

When I read that report, I was quite alarmed. It never occurred to me that someone pushing a pram would not stop and take the call.

Far far worse is the fact these new mums are going out for a nice walk with their baby - and baby gets zero interaction because mum's head is buried in the phone.

When I took mine out for a walk in the pushchair, we had 'conversations', which in time turned into general chatter about what we could see - dogs, lambs, horses, birds, plants and flowers, farm equipment etc.
On starting school, they could identify at least 10 birds, 10 flowers or plants (including poisonous ones), 3 breeds of sheep, 2 breeds of cow, all brands of tractor - basically what was local, different types of farming equipment, several types of cloud and other random things eg how to tell which way the wind was blowing, to know that water flows downhill , how to tell roughly where north is by looking for the damper side the sun doesn't get to eg moss on trees etc etc etc

It's no wonder today's children start school lacking language skills!

My dad dined out for ages on the tale of when with daughter, aged only just over 2, we were heading out to a country pub for lunch by car. Dad said 'Oh look, a combine harvester!' Daughter barely looked and said drily 'Yes, it's a Claas', which amused my dad immensely (he was a town boy, so hadn't a clue).

What tree is that then?

The use of a phone in the street is far more prevalent and obvious than someone walking into the road without looking. In a case like that, they would be prosecuted if they caused an accident, because it is surely not legal to do that?

If the phone rings, why not stop and take it, whatever you are doing in the street? Taking a phone call on the move is showing the person is not paying due care and attention.

Presumably no one thinks it's wrong because you need 2 hands to drive a car. It's perfectly possible to push a pram with 1 hand.

And you couldn't stop to take a call on the pavements round here, they aren't wide enough. You could of course ignore the call and phone whoever it is back, but that depends really.

I do think it's a shame that so many parents are constantly on their phones and ignoring their dc. But there doesnt need to be a law about it.

Yes, I do and am not ashamed of that. It is the use of the phone, not the phone itself.

Don't any of the posters stop when the phone rings? Doesn't anyone see the danger?

@llizzie Government data from 2022 in the category “distraction in vehicle” says there were 76 fatalities and 2616 injuries that year. Within that category incidents where driver mobile phone use was the cause of collisions there were 22 deaths and 652 injuries. Just taking one year as a sample those are significant numbers.

There is no information about the number of deaths and injuries to pedestrians where using a mobile phone is the cause of injury to pedestrians. There doesn’t seem to be any information about whether giving a mother (you don’t mention fathers) a mobile phone and a pram leads to a significant rise in child injuries. So perhaps the mobile phone usage in vehicles and mobile phone usage with prams is not a valid/logical comparison?

If it was made illegal to push a pram while using a mobile phone based on no evidence that this is more dangerous than any other type of mobile use while on the move, then other forms of potential distraction would have to have the same treatment. Imagine policing that?

That said, I vote that mobile phone using pedestrians who stop in the middle of the pavement right in front of
me other pedestrians causing a rear end collision should be fined £100 on the spot for being an arse. If the emergency stop is to take a selfie then a lengthy prison sentence isn’t too harsh IMO.

What if it isn't a bollard, but a person, and someone on the phone rams them with a pram? The child might be OK, but the person could lose their balance and fall, and hit their head. What then?

It was an eyeopener for me, because I never thought such things could happen.

Who pays compensation for injuries? It is hardly an accident if someone is on the phone with one hand - is it?

All those things can happen when not paying due care and attention,

A phone user can stop to take the call. They do not have to run the risk of bumping into someone and causing injury.

That is the difference.

So if Doris hasn't heard of it, it hasn't happened?

You stop and take the phone call. That is being courteous to other people walking.

Sore leg? If someone walks into you with a pram, or even a shopping bag, and hits your shin. It might not be just a sore leg. There is no fat layer between the shin bone and the skin. Once the skin is broken, it springs apart and causes an ulcer that could take months to heal. Don't you know that? The same for elbows and ankles.

Big oaks from little acorns grow.

If I am standing still to take a call on a mobile phone and someone walks into me because they are distracted by something and they injure themselves should I be liable @llizzie? Is the distraction or the possession of a mobile the deciding factor?

The difference between what?

Either someone is in a motorised vehicle that doesn't use the pavement, and can travel much faster than a pedestrian, or they're just a person pushing, pulling whatever contraption at walking pace.

One of those could likely cause death or severe injury, the other wouldn't under normal circumstances.

Big batshit opinions from little batshit opinions grow too

First of all, I don't mention fathers because the witness - whoever it was, not me, which is why I copied it on this site,- doesn't mention men. I have not elaborated on my post, just put it how it was put to me. In my way of life, it never occurred to me that anyone could be so stupid as to push a pram with one hand and hold a phone with the other.

Before the mobile phone, a driver could be pulled over for not putting both hands of the wheel. Eating and drinking were also illegal, anything, in fact, which distracted the driver, including looking behind to see what the kids were up to on the back seat.

''How many deaths does it take to be told, that too many people have died''?

How many injuries is enough proof for you to think it is unwise to hold a phone with one hand, push a pram, or a shopping trolley, or something similar?

So you think people should stop on the spot to take a phone call? So what about walking with a friend, should I not talk to them as that could be a distraction? You can see how this is all becoming a bit ridiculous surely