To think ‘LTB’ is said too often on MN ?

[AugustHoliday]

Inspired by a couple of recent threads. I’ve seen LTB instructed for trivial matters including ‘DH’s’ shitting in en-suite’s and a new boyfriend turning up hungover for Sunday lunch at the future in-laws.

Is it just me, or is this advice handed out too lightly?

Yeah this is partly why LTB is so powerful.

I remember when my marriage was on the ropes posting on here in a state of massive denial, softening the posts to paint my then husband in the kindest possible light and praying that people would validate the idea that there was still something to salvage.

I remember the starkness of some of the responses to my posts detailing disputes and situations which had taken place. To have strangers on the internet who didn't know me and felt no compunction to soften their perspectives tell me in unvarnished terms what an arsehole he was was a real wake-up call. It stung and it took some months to sink in but it helped me get some perspective.

I'm fairly sure that if it hadn't been for random but well intentioned strangers telling me to LTB my abusive marriage would have limped on for several years more than it needed to. As it was I had the foresight to get out early enough that it allowed me to avoid getting dragged into his alcoholic madness and protected my then toddler DD from the worst of his impending breakdown.

Women are conditioned to avoid facing up to LTB: most people whose marriages are failing will stick their heads in the sand for as long as possible. Their families and friends will collude in this process to "keep the family together". The power of having people who owe you no diplomacy tell you how your situation looks is immense.

I've seen hundreds of threads on here since from women who I can tell are in the same situation and seen some of them come around to acknowledging that they need to leave.

No I think people have a really low bar for what's acceptable in a relationship. I don't see it said often for trivial reasons. Yes there is always going to be people who say it on any thread but on threads with hundreds of responses, there are always going to be extreme views and the majority of views aren't always LTB

Also - people weren't saying LTB because the posters bf turned up to a lunch hungover. They were saying it because he casually referred to his mates using prostitutes infront of his parents like it was all normal, and blamed the OP for organising the lunch after a night out when in fact she'd offered to rearrange and he'd said no, which are huge red flags in a new relationship

So anything short of hitting you is ok? Selfish, lazy, crass, poor hygiene, moody, all ok?

I agree.

I think it's far more worrying the number of people who encourage women to stay in terrible relationships. People aren't going to leave a fundamentally good relationship because someone says ltb on the internet. But the reverse is a lot more likely (staying in a bad relationship because someone encouraged you to online) because it's difficult to leave a long term relationship anyway and easy to be discouraged. Also it adds to the general societal pressures on women to feel guilty, be kind, put up and shut up and put others first.

So no I don't think it's said too much. If anything I think too many excuses are made for selfish and feckless men.

Sometimes it's said as a joke (are you sure the en suite one wasn't?). But anyway, YABU. I've never seen a non-joking LTB that I haven't agreed with. The hungover boyfriend one - absolutely deserves an LTB, especially that early in the relationship.

Not often enough. If a new bf doesn't care enough about you to at the very least make some effort with possible ILs, best to dump sooner rather than later. My exs at least demonstrated that they loved and cared for me ( as I did them) until the end of our relationships.

No. Sometimes people are joking for one but generally the bar is in hell for men. It is sad what some women put up with.

You are correct. MN used to be a good place for balanced reasonable relationship advice. Where people recognized relationships had their ups and downs and that both men and women have their foibles and that compromise and understanding is often the key. The reasonable people now keep largely quiet (if they are even still on here) as they are drowned out by the LTB crowd who by and large seem made up of women from failed relationships who probably are the last ones who should be giving relationship advice. These are people who blame the men for everything and no amount of reasoned argument will convince them their own issues may be a contributing factor. In short, unless you want a cheer squad to back you in a decision you have already made to leave, then MN is a terrible place to come to for relationship advice.

Hahahaha

I agree. Sometimes I really wonder if women on here take the standards thing way too literally. It’s like yes, we deserve to be loved and respected but at the same time the perfect man ✨ can’t exist on such a major scale. People can change and evolve and learn - we can’t expect everyone to be the finished product the moment they pop out their mamas hoohar.

@Notmyreality

I couldn’t agree with you more.

I’m referring to posts that say came home to find the place a mess after a 12 hour shift and people put LTB.

If the things you have mentioned happen regular then fair enough (I would at least talk to my DH and would not let it get to the stage of being regular) but I’ve been seeing things like I text my husband/partner I haven’t sat down and spoke to them yet people then put ltb. Why would you say that? At least sit down and talk to the person depending on the situation.

I have a friend whose partner over time became very depressed and started spiralling, not washing, drinking, not leaving the house etc mainly due to three bereavements of close family happening within a few months of each other and work issues on top. She posted on here and received some really helpful suggestions of organisations she could turn to but a lot of the comments on here and one in real life were ltb.

She was in a very vulnerable position and at a real loss. She didn’t want to leave her DH but felt alone trying to get back on track. They stayed together, went to bereavement and marriage counselling and are getting through it day by day it’s been about a year now. Both weren’t great at communicating with each other. I get it’s working out for them but doesn’t for everyone.

LTB depends on the context of the situation and what people are willing to put up with. A lot of the things on here I wouldn’t put up with but others would.

An ex neighbour of ours would put up with her and her partner pushing and shoving each other in an argument and getting in each others faces drunk and sober. I personally wouldn’t put up with that and 100% leave my husband and I’m sure many others would do the same in that situation but then some others wouldn’t.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread where the LTB bar is 'perfection' or anything remotely close to it. The bullshit that lots of women put up with constantly baffles me. If a relationship doesn't genuinely enhance your life, what is the point of it?

Obviously if potentially solvable issues crop up later on in an otherwise happy marriage, that may be worth working on. What amazes me is giving the benefit of the doubt early in the relationship, and ignoring obvious red flags. Nope. Move on!

People can change and evolve and learn - we can’t expect everyone to be the finished product the moment they pop out their mamas hoohar.

No, but its not the job of women to do the "finishing" of this product, often at great cost to themselves.

So many women seem to see it as their responsibility to take on the "mothering" of men, which involves tolerating appalling behaviour in the name of "love", putting their own needs to one side and often those of their children.

There's a cost/benefit analysis which should in any relationship which is not happening in a lot of cases. So many women think their job is to keep the relationship going by any means necessary and all all costs, even at great cost to themselves. Many of them instinctively recognise that a relationship is causing them harm long before they feel able to acknowledge to themselves, let alone others, that they would fare much better without the relationship for a combination of reasons (money/judgement/fear of being alone).

That's what LTB is about: it allows people to clearly hear that little alarm bell that's going off inside their head about their relationship and empowers them to act on it.

No one in the history of the world ever left a perfectly good relationship because a stranger on the internet said LTB. But if one women feels empowered to leave a destructive relationship because a stranger validated that inner alarm bell its enormously empowering.

You expressed this so well! Women should never be guilted into staying in a relationship. I love to see more women considering their own interests! May it continue.

Could you link to this post? I’ve never seen one like it.

YABU. (Leaving aside the now rather tedious overuse as a hyperbolic joke)
I might have agreed with you until I started reading more of the relationships threads. Even if the best solution for the OP isn’t to LTB, it may help them calibrate their relationship to know that other women think he (or sometimes she) is a bastard, and that leaving is an option. In so many of those threads the OP is minimising truly unacceptable behaviours, blaming herself.

Somewhere within the thread someone said it perfectly - it’s about the right balance. If someone is consistently making you unhappy with loads of behaviours and you’re at the end of your tether then absolutely LTB. But if one inconvenience has happened and the advice is LTB (which happens so often which is where my perfection comment came from), then I honestly question how posters even develop any kind of relationship if they have such a low tolerance level for mistakes. My guess is also that they don’t follow their own advice in general.

People gave me the advice to LTB. I followed it and it was the best thing I ever did.

The hangover one was more a case of don't bother getting into this relationship and wasn't just about the hangover. And absolutely there are some appalling relationships when LTB should have happened long ago. But there are a whole host in the middle where I can't help but think we are hearing one side of an argument and it's pretty easy to see it from the partner's side/it's all rather an overreaction. Just be adults, the pair of you!

The number of posters who seem to think a different opinion is a huge matter of disrespect boggles me sometimes. I wonder if they are the same people posting 'It's a non issue' when someone is overthinking a supermarket interaction whatever. The difference being that they aren't planning on upending their life over an argument in a supermarket queue.

I’ve been on Mumsnet years I’m referring to posts I’ve seen over time…I usually just browse and scroll on if I see another one I will link it.

My friends post is a zombie post and don’t want to be the person that revives that.

LTB is another way of saying raise your bar.

I just can’t believe some of absolute shit women put up with from men and that’s not even on the relationship boards - that can sometimes be on the food boards where exhausted women are expected to be the cook and bottle washer 24/7 and they seem conditioned to accept it.

If you have a low bar then fine, put up with male bullshit, but some of us have standards. And no, no failed relationship or man hating here. Happily married for over 30 years. He’s a wonderful man and I had do lots of ltbs before I got to him.

I don’t think it is said without good reason. I read some of these threads and am shocked at what is tolerated in a relationship.

I think your standards are just low.

Especially given the examples you have.

This. The Sunday lunch absolutely is a perfect example where she needs to LTB.

the new boyfriend thread definitely was a red flag. That was a LTB scenario to anyone with self respect.