To quit work and do an OU degree?

[Agix]

I've posted about quitting work before, due to my health. I was advised by mumsnet that at the time it wasn't the best idea. Suggestion was to go part time instead, which I did.

Since then, my health has declined further. It's some life-long mental health, some physical health, and recently diagnosed neurodivergence which may explain a whole lot of it. I am in therapy on the NHS now.

My partner and I have gotten married since. His income has also increased slightly.

Hes very keen for me to quit work now and focus on taking time to get better, he says he doesn't want to see me so unwell and with no life anymore, and just carrying on like this. He says he thinks it'll just keep getting worse if nothing changes, and I can't say I think he's wrong. I went part time, and things are still getting worse. I feel I can't catch up, nothing is getting fixed.

He is extremely keen for me to get a degree when I told him I wanted to, I never got the chance when I was younger, and I'd love to do it too. He says I deserve the opportunity and believes I'd do well.

With his take home pay, we have around £300 a month left over after current expenses.. Perhaps more when we cut and reduce the unnecessary expenses (subscriptions, etc). We have around £10k savings. So it'll be tight... But doesnt everyone have to struggle to get anywhere? He says getting further raises is not out of the question for him either. No kids, just a cat. No kids on the horizon.

I'm scared with the drop in income, my take home is low but we live well and securely now due to it, but coming round to the idea for the sake of bettering myself . I don't think current work is sustainable anyway, I'm not performing well anymore with the impact of my health. Reasonable adjustments havnt worked. Losing this job isn't off the table...

I think quitting work, and doing an OU course (Law) would be great for me. I get some time off work before course starts, can manage my own time during, learn from home, attending therapy, and have a goal so I'm not rotting... And hopefully new, better footing to re-enter the work force when I am able. Re-calibrate for 3-4 years.

Is it entirely stupid to be on the verge of doing this?

YABU - don't do it.

YANBU - do it, it could work out for the best (obviously with effort from me).

NC for this, because I don’t want my job, which is outing, linked to other posts. This is a long one, but I hope it is helpful.

I’m a human rights solicitor. I know you are not sure about whether you actually want to become a lawyer, but it’s worth knowing that if you struggle talking to people, it is not the right career for you. I talk to clients multiple times a day. Human rights law revolves around, well, humans! The content of those conversations can be very, very, distressing. These are people who are victims of torture, violence, sexual and domestic abuse. I would estimate that 90% of my clients have PTSD. I have had to talk multiple clients down from suicide over my career. Hearing their stories can cause vicarious trauma. So many people who started out with me in this field 20 years ago have since had to quit due to the impact. I am mentally well and have strategies for coping, but I have moments, even now, of struggling whereby I have to get a few sessions of therapy to manage. I regularly have to take trainees off cases for a month or so, because of the impact it has on their emotional well being - despite my workplace having excellent support in place for them.

I love my job, and for the right person, it is amazing. But for anyone who has mental health issues, I would say it’s a complete no-no.

The idea that you can approach it from a purely theoretical position, perhaps doing background work and without engaging with clients too much is, I’m afraid not a role that exists. Human rights firms are always on the edge of financial survival. I have never worked somewhere where we could afford to have someone just doing background law. It’s all in or nothing, I’m afraid. Document only work you could perhaps do as a paralegal, but not as a solicitor.

It’s also very badly paid. People don’t believe that but I am very senior, well known and well respected in my field, and I still earn a third of a commercial or corporate solicitor because clients are either assisted on legal aid or pro bono. So you have to LOVE the job and have other financial support (thanks DH!) to be able to do it long term.

If you don’t want to be a solicitor/barrister but are simply interested in human rights law, frankly, the law degree is not the best way to learn about it. A law degree has many core modules which are, frankly, boring, and irrelevant to human rights law. I knew I wanted to be a human rights solicitor so I DELIBERATELY avoided the full 3 year law degree. I just don’t care about land law or equity and trusts to study them in the depth required in a full degree. And those are core modules. A couple of modules on human rights over 3 years would not have been enough to maintain my interest. Instead I did the conversion course after a different degree in something I was very interested in.

So only do a law degree if you are interested in law as an overall subject. Otherwise it is a long, hard, slog and won’t actually cover what you are interested in. And a law degree really is very hard. The amount of work those at my uni doing law degrees did was comparable only to those doing medicine or classics (old style classics degrees where you had to do Latin and Ancient Greek, not the current courses which are much easier).

It sounds like you want a degree. And it also sounds like you have the drive and smarts to do it. I applaud anyone learning for the sake of learning and am lucky enough to have done my degree when that was feasible because there were no fees. But given your circumstances I would think very hard about whether law is the right degree for you. There are so many other options out there. You should think very hard about what it is you are interested in, and choose the degree that allows you to study that area of interest the most.

Good luck, OP

Thank you very much, this is very helpful. I will consider all you have said.

My back up plan was do a law degree, and if I can't get a role that suits, go into HR. Heh. Figured law would help with that too.

I can talk to people. I can talk to people about hard subject matters. I'm very good with people, it's always been one of my strengths. That's because I've worked hard to be good with people.

I can't sit in a call centre making chit chat about the weather and working to nonsensical KPIs.

I do not have depression, or mental health issues of that nature.

But, maybe it wouldn't be a good fit anyway.

I still kind of want to do law though. It seems most useful for my skill set. But I'll have another look.

“Chit chat” is an invaluable skill in doing the work. It’s how I ground my clients when things are stressful for them. It’s what I use to create connection so we can build trust so they feel able to share the worst parts of their life with me. It is a key part of doing the job well.

There are lots of areas of law where there is much less client contact and need for chit chat, and where analysis and the ability to grind through the work is useful. But they are more in areas like corporate law, where you would be part of big teams doing huge cases. Which would bore the pants off me. (And I secretly don’t think of it as “real law” because it’s basically fancy admin with no detailed application of the law itself!)

Just to add, KPIs exist in law too. You will have to record every minute of your day, in 6 minute units. And most firms have targets of how many chargeable hours you do a day (not all the work is chargeable) and how much you have to bring in in fees (again, not everything can be charged) and when you don’t meet those targets, you’re out. It is very black and white and it can be ruthless.

Maybe I should be aiming for the fancy admin! That sounds right up my street to be honest.

As sad as it sounds, the grind doesn't bore me. I thrive. Give me something complex, that means I have to knuckle down. I love getting to the answer. I get a lot of satisfaction doing accurate thorough work and have it be useful to someone at the end. Fancy admin!

I say human rights because I also very, very much care about people. That's my passion. Politics, human rights, equality. I may struggle with socialising, but I care about people very much.

I'm great with people, but it's draining - I mask amazingly, but can't sustain it. I can't do chit chat and have the chit chat be part of the kpis.

I want to be a very useful little engine, from the background.

I do want to say, I can comfort people and relate to people, ground people, build rapport and earn trust. Again, one of my strengths... But in my current role, which is akin to a call centre (not quite but pretty much) I feel my brain rotting. Not because of the clients, mind...

I don't think I'd want to be doing what you do, that was not the eventual goal anyway. There are a few roles I particularly have in mind, but it's all centered around one particular thing that to outright say might out me.. I need a law degree to get there.

It's somewhat niche though, and might not exist in 4 years, but my thinking was a law degree would open many doors if my ideal doesn't work out... Again, HR was one thing I was considering. I know people skills are a must there too, but I do have those.

As long as its not a bloody call centre.

With any profession you have to be realistic about where the actual job is. I know WFH capabilities have made working in some areas more flexible but consider if you could actually get a job in the area you live in. I have relocated twice for my career, my brothers have gone further and moved countries twice.

Sounds like you have burnout. As you do not plan children and well done on recognising your limit then I would suggest remaining PT for another year and then applying. I did a level one OU course for fun when working FT and DS was around 5. I found it very easy but I’m a high energy sort of person. I think just be totally sure with big life changes and contemplating over a matter of months is a good idea.

I have known 3 people with law degrees who did practice law. They very much had different levels of success in their career. The corporate lawyer working all hours is a multi millionaire. The other two who wanted to do altruistic stuff didn’t fare well financially at all. One did go in to human rights and loved it but the other didn’t really achieve much but did have an incredibly difficult home life.

If you're working in a call centre I don't blame you for feeling burnt out by it. I think if you want to get a degree keep your options open at this point about what you're aiming for afterwards. I had to do a couple of statistics modules as part of my degree and I expected to find them quite boring. I didn't and I'm now a statistician.

I couldn't work outside of the home even if the workplace was in my town. My health doesn't allow for it. I have to work from home to do any work at all. I have been diagnosed with agoraphobia for many years, but now understand it's not that - it is too overwhelming and overstimulating for me to be able to work out there.

I know that's not ideal but it's my situation, and I have to work with that.

I either work from home or not work at all and be on benefits. I'm choosing to try and find a way I can work, contribute, and participate.

I don't need to make millions, just be able to work, be useful, make a wage to contribute to our household.

I did an OU degree full-time (so finished in three years) and absolutely loved it. I did work part-time alongside but the studying was brilliant. I had tried and failed to go to a brick university and found the OU so great for pacing myself and managing my own time. I then went on to do an MA at a brick university and was far from the only one with an OU degree in my course.

Go for it!

You interact with other students online in forums and sometimes in person in tutorials. I made friends with some of the people on the same courses and we met for lunches and discussed the course (and life the universe and everything). You also have work to be submitted for marking so you have targets. It doesn't need to be a lonely experience if you choose to engage.

in the nicest possible way, you are better off focusing you time on being able to cope/deal with these issues you have rather than doing a degree.

If you've got a supportive partner, who doesnt mind you giving up work, i personally would work on myself rather than a degree.

I understand. But some of these issues are not going to get better. I can do therapy to stop the night terrors, panic attacks, dissociation, etc... But I'm not going to stop being autistic, easily over stimulated and overwhelmed. I've tried over the years, very hard, to no avail before I understood what was going on with me. Everyone thought I just had very stubborn agoraphobia, I knew I didn't, I knew I wasn't scared of outside.. Outside was just too much. I need to work within my capabilities, instead of trying to be something I'm not.

I can work on myself, sure, and can improve many issues I have going on right now which will make me a lot more capable... but I need to also work on getting into sustainable work from home. And find a way to be useful. I can't sustain work outside the home.

I can't just sit here and rot just because other people don't like WFH.... 😕

Re you currently signed off sick Op?

On the basis of all you have said, serious and chronic mental health conditions, you struggle very much with face to face interactions… I think a law degree would be throwing money down the drain.

Id be trying to get well first and foremost, or at least as healthy as a I can be. And then, with a clearer mind, decide whether I’m up for a huge undertaking like this

It’s not a choice between “sit here and rot” OR do a law degree OP

and the very fact you even think that really does indicate that some time really needs to be spent on you and your health first

I wouldn't do Law. You'll need to go all the way, with a training contract, and work your way up the ranks, to get to a decent salary. Junior roles are actively being replaced with AI. Wages have been driven down a lot in recent years. You might be 15 years PQE, working as a salaried partner for a non-City law firm, and only be on £50k.

Law, charity casework and HR don’t seem like realistic options for you, based on the information you’ve provided.

The most likely outcome of doing this seems that you will get a degree but incur high costs: £30k+ of debt (student loans) plus your lost potential earnings. With uncertain job prospects.

This would also put you in a position of financial reliance on your H.

I think it’d be better to seek to remain in paid work of some kind.

OP as someone who has studied with the OU I would caution about studying law. It is extremely competitive to secure the necessary external training to complete the degree. Do not underestimate the financial and time commitment for this type of degree.

Good luck with what you decide to do.

I'll add, business development forms a big part of being a lawyer - networking, meeting targets, securing new clients, presenting at beauty parades. It doesn't sound like it would suit you at all.

This would be great if there was any treatment that was a high probability to work. As it is the OP is undergoing treatment and looking for ways to have meaningful employment where she gets to use her brain.

OP go for the OU course. Maybe start with just 1 to see how you go so you are studying part time (not working at the same time just giving yourself time to adjust).

What you are doing isn’t sustainable do you need to try something different and it seems like you have found something you are interested in. What is the harm in giving it a go?

OP, I have just seen that you need a full time WFH arrangement. I feel confident in saying that no law firm would allow that. Especially not at the training contract stage but even way above that. If that is something you need, then even the “fancy admin” I was talking about won’t be viable. Sorry.

Maybe you should work backwards from the job to the degree i.e. what can be done from home full time, and what qualifications do I need for that? And choose your degree based on that?

If you want a degree for the simple love of learning, that’s fine, but you have to work out if you can afford that, knowing it’s a cost, not an investment in your career.

Thank you for understanding.

I believe I can do it.

I asked this question mainly about the money side of things, I didn't expect my ability to complete a degree to be called into question just because of my health issues or recently realised neurodivergence. I'm am working within those limits. That's why I'm doing this.

I am a brain in a jar. If you can hook me up to a computer, I would be endlessly useful. I can work from home. I can do fantastic work from home. I already do - but I struggle with the other things people don't have to think twice about. I'm learning how to cope, but I now understand there some things I will never be able to do... I won't be able to work outside the home, for example, due to my issues with overstimulation. But I can be so useful from home.

Everyone has assumed I want to be a lawyer or work at a law firm... This isn't the case, I don't know why people have assumed that. I never wanted to work at a law firm! I want to work in the charity sector, as I am now. I just want a higher, more secure, more background position position (and they all have degrees, mostly law) ... And more than that, feel more useful and more capable.

I could be an educated brain in a jar rather than an uneducated brain in a jar. I click with law. Surely there is some use for me if I try.

That's exactly what I did. The roles I wanted, could do, could be great at, I observed, law degree was most common and most useful.

I don't want to be at a law firm...

This is feeling kind of gatekeeper-y now.

I’m sorry you feel this is “gatekeepery” but you asked if your plan was a good one and people, including me, are trying to help you think it through by providing practical information about the degree itself and the jobs. You may not like what we are saying, but no one is trying to prevent you from doing anything you want to do let alone keep you out of law itself.

You appear to have made your mind up, and hopefully it is the right decision. Personally, I like to have all the info I can get before I make big decisions. I assumed you were trying to do the same. If what I have said has made you feel like I was trying to put you off in some way, then apologies. I was simply trying to help.

Best of luck.

You say you don't like working in what's basically a call centre, but it sounds like it's that which allows you to WFH full time. A more senior role in a charity that you need a degree for would be unlikely to let you work from home full time. I can't see how you would be able to do such a job without going into the office or out and about to meetings etc. It sounds like you've got caught up in how things are done at your current organisation and aren't thinking about the bigger picture if you want/need to eventually work somewhere else.
In any case, I think it's madness to give up work and be financially dependent on a partner while you're studying. If you're unable to work part time to support yourself while you study, I wouldn't consider it personally.

Skip the oh and just do your degree at the nearest uni and claim a maintenance loan. That way you have an income and can do your degree. You only repay your loan after you earn above £25k and tbh with your health issues is that likely in the future?