To not see the practical point of getting married?

[Queenofswords88]

My partner and I are in our thirties. We’ve been together many years and own a house together. We’re also hoping to have a baby together (currently going through fertility issues / treatment).

We’ve talked about marriage plenty of times and he’s always made it clear that he would marry me in a heartbeat if it’s something I wanted to do, but it’s not something he cares about enough to push for. I’m not convinced marriage is for me, for various reasons including expense/stress of a wedding and a feeling that the institution is outdated/anti-feminist.

My partner works full time in a good job. I earn significantly more than him even though I work part time in a flexible role which would accommodate having a child. I have more in savings, pension and investments and more equity in the house we share.

I hear a lot of blanket advice, especially on Mumsnet, about it being essential to get married before having a child. In my circumstances, I can’t think of a single practical reason why that’s the case. AIBU?

Marriage is you and the father of your child setting up a business to raise a child. It’s not romantic, but it is incredibly practical. It’s an easy and cheap shortcut to all the paperwork that you can cobble together in other, much more expensive ways that say that you want to protect me another if things go badly.

When you have a child, you never know what is going to happen. It’s the biggest gamble we take in life. Suddenly you can go from having two good jobs to needing a parent who can be a caregiver even if you both wanted to continue to work.

you don’t need to have a big wedding. Just go fill out the forms. DH and I had a small wedding for family, but for our legal wedding we literally did it on our lunch break from work. It was about as exciting as going to get a building permit.

You’re conflating marriage with a wedding.

You need to do some proper research OP.

Marriage/CP offer significant legal protections, both practical and financial.

My mother’s friend thought as you did until her partner suffered a serious head injury. All medical decisions (despite them being together 20 year plus) were taken by his NOK (brother in this case) with whom they had both had a very fractious relationship.

It came close to a decision to withdraw life support, which his brother was in favour of. Thankfully he made a partial recovery, enough to have mental capacity to make his own decisions - one of which was getting married.

Yes you could spend money on multiple contracts and legal documents to recreate the benefit of one single legal document - that of marriage/civil partnership

Honestly don't have a baby unless you married if you can. When things go wrong being married makes a huge difference. I've had so many friends who lost our because they won't married. If you don't have children it's less of a risk to not be married.... On a separate note my aunt and uncle got married quickly in their late 50s after 20 years together as my uncle sadly had terminal cancer.... honestly nok makes such a difference.

Agree with PPs, it's like any other contract or insurance - you only need it when something goes wrong, and trying to deal with the fall out when you are also trying to deal with something going wrong is hugely stressful.

I have seen it happen, I've seen people whose partner dies unexpectedly and who have to sell up their forever home, a home they have lived in with their partner for decades and that they have made together because they didn't think there was any point getting married.

I have seen partners kept away from their partners death bed by family, even if they have been together for 50 years or more. That's why they brought in CP for same sex relationships, because this did happen.

All the stuff about needing to be married to be NOK for health stuff is not true. You can nominate anyone and the medical team would always involve unmarried partner even if no NOK specified. And no one apart from medics gets to make any final decisions about treatment if the patient is incapacitated.

My BFF was like you - so they got a Civil Partnership. Town hall, 6 people
there, pub after.
As people say you don’t know the benefit h til the shit hits the fan in some way. Mate’s DP died suddenly and they weren’t married but had a kid and the legal side has been a nightmare to sort. A couple of women friends have been left high and dry post split because they weren’t married despite having children together.
Unless YOU are and can remain much more financially better off than your DP do NOT have a child without being married.

I’m enjoying all these stories of people getting married really cheaply and easily without it turning into a big faff! Definitely food for thought.

To answer a previous question, his family are truly lovely. I appreciate things can always change but I really cannot imagine them pulling rank re e.g. funeral arrangements.

It’s always surprising how many people are adamant marriage means nothing without going the most basic research into it. Posters have kindly explained in detail but a 2 minute google will tell you why it’s worth doing.

Marriage only really protects the financially weaker party. Which doesn’t apply in your case so no I wouldn’t be concerned about getting married

I was with my partner for 25 years, we never married, he never divorced his wife. In my mind it was just a piece of paper.
We had three kids together. He recently left the family home, moved 130 miles away, we don’t know where he lives, he is concealing income from CMA, I get maintenance of less than £400 pm. He sees his children 4 hrs a week. They/we don’t know where he lives to raise a court action.
It’s all very well to not be married until it isn’t and by that point it’s too late.

As has been said numerous times on MN, don't confuse marriage (legal contract) with a wedding (party!)

you can get married or civilly partnered incredibly cheaply

I think this way of looking at it - that it’s like the two of you setting up a business. It’s not strictly legally correct (obviously you don’t have to intend to have a child to get married) but it makes sense.

Not true. They can try but a determined blood relative will trump anything, legally. Unless you go and actually get NOK legal paperwork drawn up and kept up to date. Pre marriage equality my DFriend was kept away from his partner of 20 years by the homophobic parents as the partner dies in hospital. The parents then went after their home and the partners money… despite there being a will my friend spent a small fortune fending them off and ended up essentially paying them something to fuck off rather than keep contesting the will etc

If you really can’t see the practical,point, TBH I despair. How many women are equally ignorant of the advantages of that ‘piece of paper’? Actual wedding or civil partnership, they’re the same.

YANBU OP

I watched my fairly affluent dm being financially abused by f for 40 years. I'm now a single mum who has avoided getting married. I earn sufficient to buy my own home, and to provide for my ds.

By remaining single and not cohabiting, I protect my home and assets. If I married, I could never be sure that my husband wasn't piling up debt in secret. As a single woman, I know exactly how my ds will be provided for. I have sole control of my finances so no man will ever have the chance to interfere.

Marriage in a combining of two people into one single economic unit, which requires a massive leap of faith, one which I have no reason to make.

I date quietly away from my ds' home.

No-one can but people
can 1) be odd as feck 2) money. When money is involved rules go OUT the window.

It's a legal arrangement

I don't see what there is to understand

I'm a bit - no, actually I'm completely baffled by people who don't get this. If the legal set up suits you then do it. If it doesn't then don't. size or hassle of wedding is completely irrelevant.

As many others have commented, marriage comes into its own if something sadly happens to one of you, if you have a good will in place it probably negates some of that, but, in the event of an early death, being married just helps smooth all the hardship and work that follows

2 former colleagues of mine went to the registry office in their lunch break, got married, came back to work.

They saw it was a bit of necessary life admin.

They never had any kind of party or meal or celebration. Signed the forms and literally never mentioned it again

I think you are very sensible to be thinking things through and asking the question - MN is very very pro marriage but that's predicated on a series of assumptions that the female half of the partnership is always the financially worse off, lower earner, will make career sacrifices to raise children etc. If you are the higher earner and/or have more assets marriage won't necessarily 'protect' you, it may actually mean having to give up your house or pension to settle with your ex in the case of a split. As per PP that may or may not be a legal commitment you morally or emotionally feel you want to make but it's hardly essential.

In the case of death of you or your partner, inheritance and funeral issues can largely be sorted by making wills and ensuring you and/or your child are one another's beneficiaries of any pension or insurance payouts in the event of your early death. IHT is a good thing to think about but only applicable to higher value estates, some pensions will count in future so keep an eye on this but again not a cast iron reason to get married in all circumstances.

Serious illness and incapacity / power of attorney is a frequent reason to get married cited on here, people say wouldn't you want your partner to be the one to decide what happens if you are in a coma, nightmare scenarios are thrown around of your parents or siblings throwing your unmarried partner out of the ICU - personally I think this one is a bit of a red herring. Next of kin is a term used informally in hospitals but doesn't have a huge amount of actual legal standing. It's just who you choose to put on your notes as being the primary point of contact in an emergency and you can put who you like, a friend, an unmarried partner, your cat 😉 If you are incapacitated and have previously nominated a power of attorney for health and welfare they can make decisions on your behalf (NB even if married you still need to draw up the legal documents, there's no automatic power of attorney to a spouse) and conversely, if you have no nominated power of attorney doctors will make decisions in your best interests which will include consulting with your partner (married or unmarried) plus immediate family. I work in hospitals and I've very very rarely come across any issue about a long term unmarried partner not being appropriately involved or not allowed to visit their partner because the in laws have been allowed to kick them out, and believe me I've been involved in a ton of family drama otherwise, that's a constant, but marriage doesn't make a huge difference per se. The only times where maybe it would is where there's a question over the genuine long-termness of the relationship so someone claims they were the persons partner and the family says they're not or they've broken up - and that can happen even if married. But if your DP is the father of your children and you live together I can't see it being any issue for him to be your medical 'next of kin' or vice versa.

The two reasons you give for not liking marriage are based on clichés. You don't need to have a wedding if you don't want one. Marriage itself is not patriarchal if you don't let it be. Marriage is whatever the two of you want it to be. Make a will so your intentions re finances are clear and you define the rest yourself.

This is what I keep coming back to really. (Although all the points about not knowing what will happen re future health / disabled children etc. are valid.)

People talk about marriage being important if you have children then split up, but if things continue as they are would I not be financially worse off (and in a worse position to look after children) if we got divorced? What are the actual protections for children people talk about? Is it not about protecting the mother on the assumption she’s financially worse off? Surely my partner would still be required to pay child support if we weren’t married?

@Meadowfinch your circumstances are quite different from those described by OP, though. I think dating away from your children in the sensible thing to do, really (I did the same and overall no regrets).

@Queenofswords88 I was never into the idea of marriage (my parents had a horrendous divorce) but then my ex died and I was left with no legal protections and his family acted like I wasn’t “really” his partner - his parents snatched all his personal documents away, I barely had time to collect myself. I had to move out of our rented apartment because he never updated the contract, had no entitlement to widow’s pension. It made me completely reconsider how I view marriage now and I would like for myself and my partner to be protected against any possible downturns.