To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

You crack on protecting your loved ones.

I paid £700. In tax this year. State pension and small private one. If you're a high earner and young enough just go.

My friend two young kids abandoned by feckless father and divorced. Well she won the lottery during Gordon Brown's time as leader. She was advised by professionals to up sticks and emigrate. She listened and did just that. Bought a place in Spain, enrolled the kids in school there. Got a job in realty there. Kids went onto university in Scotland. Everyone has thrived.

It’s interesting that’s your point of view. To the rest of us it looks like Labour got in and swiftly took a sharp right.

Are there specific policies that have angered you or have you just heard some sound bites and started panicking, because it sounds like you aren’t directly affected by anything other than the vibes you’re getting. The blame is supposed to point down right? So it feels threatening when it starts pointing upwards.

This is counter productive. You will need taxpayers as much as anyone. If they reduce and opt out are you ready to pick up the difference?

An honest answer to a straight question.

I am in wealth/finance, and have been since the early 90’s - having worked in Asia, Europe, the City (and Mayfair). I have seen, and traded, good and bad markets, good and bad governments (via gilts and fx), and been through the volatility attached to 9/11, the GFC, and the pandemic etc.

This Labour government are spectacularly bad for the following reasons - they came into government talking the economy down, Reeves’s budget hit SME’s hard, and drove out many non-doms (I know). The cabinet have no commercial acumen and dubious economic competence. They are clearly ideological eg. Private school VAT etc. They quickly took care of their voter base, awarding above-inflation settlements for many in the public sector.
All this, in an extremely difficult macro - with Trump’s tariffs and conflict in the Ukraine and the Middle East, ageing demographics and advances in AI.

I have been directly impacted - financially, and would almost certainly be hit again in October if I remained.

This is not a country to remain in if you have aspirations to better yourself financially. I say this, with all the experience I have (without meaning to sound arrogant). And for those who wish to remain - best of luck, but we all know where the UK is heading in the short to medium term, at least (if we are honest with ourselves).

It's useful to have a clear, practical summary of what"s happening by someone who actually understands and works in finanace to cut through all the individual emotional ideological bollocks sometimes. Thank you.

Agree. Rather than the economically illiterate stuff you get from most.

The personal stories of issues, while sad, are for a different sort of thread if we are discussing the country itself. That doesn't take away from the stories themselves obviously but they aren't hugely helpful when discussing the state of the union.

Problem is this poster was quite happy to stay for fourteen years of Tory rule which saw chaos, nest feathering and the widening of the gap between rich and poor. One sniff of a Labour government attempting to redress the balance, even a little, and they’re off.

Again. Not my problem. I’ve stated the facts, which you’ve decided to ignore. No point in continuing to engage with you any further because you’re not willing to debate beyond the parroting of ‘word salad’ to everything. Insulting others because they hold a different opinion to yourself shuts down the debate pretty quickly.

Hitting businesses doesn’t do that though. It just decreases tax receipts and hits the job market, especially younger people.

Sorry, but you are wrong - I was working overseas for just over seven years of that period.

Can you go back and read through my posts again and tell me where you think they are not factual ? I worked in the field of disability as an outreach worker for more than twenty years. Gave talks on disability benefits and motability during the same period. Know the system inside out and posted several times with details and facts about how it works and how it’s funded. You’ve chosen to ignore all of that and called it word salad to support your own ableist views. Meanwhile you haven’t challenged a single thing I’ve said with any ‘facts’ of your own have you ? Just ableism and insults instead of reasoned debate. Not wasting any more time on this. It’s pointless and derailing.

So with your background you still have more than plenty, just not as much as you could have had. You’ve been receiving benefits just like poor people - non-dom exemptions, low capital gains tax, tax havens. If your benefits are taken away you’re still rich. You can still live in luxury. If ours are taken away it’s a different story. We budget to the penny.

Your concern is bettering yourself. I wonder how you feel about the 300,000+ families in the UK who don’t have homes.

You deploy a very twisted logic.

Your argument should be with the government of the day - not the taxpayer.
Instead of driving taxpayers away, presumably the government should be looking at retaining them, but perhaps you disagree? Perhaps you want lower tax revenues? If tax revenues are shown to have dropped owing to Labour’s fiscal policies, will you accept that they are clearly not working?

As to the 300k+ families in the UK you claim are homeless, how is this the fault of taxpayers like me? Had I and other taxpayers not paid the amounts we have, the numbers you mention would have logically been higher. You choose to ignore the lack of house building, of net immigration, of changes in demographics.

Had I, and others, not sought to ‘better ourselves’, the UK would have also been ‘poorer’. And there’s the point - there is little/no upside for many of us to increase our ‘wealth’ now, so we retire, we emigrate, we cut our income, we dispose of assets, we mitigate our tax exposure.

Blame Labour, they did this.

Keeping more of your own money is not the same as taking other people’s money and living tor free.

It is beyond belief that people who get to vote in this country do not understand this most basic of principles.

Keeping more of your own money is not the same as taking other people’s money and living tor free

@OriginalUsername2 did not suggest that.

The PP sought to gaslight the taxpayer, is what they did.

The ignorance is staggering, and is part of the reason for this thread.

It’s really very simple - look at the taxpayer as a customer - they are free to reduce their tax liability (read govt revenue), or take their revenue elsewhere.
So, do not blame them when they do, because they are hacked off with the rhetoric, the ‘customer service’ (read public services), the constant fiddling with tax policy, and bonkers spending (on the welfare state, on immigration, on the public sector).

The UK has gone beyond a tipping point, I suspect.

I am so sorry that us plebs have failed to acknowledge and marvel at how ambitious and successful you are.🙄

"The state is a major employer" really shouldn't come as a shock. How many nurses do you think we should get rid of so that you can feel special? The report counts anyone who works in HR as dependent on the public sector - they don't receive any actual money from the state, why do you resettlement?

So basically your argument is that if you’re a higher rate tax payer you want the government of the day to do what you want so you can increase your wealth……..or you’ll leave ??!!

That’s not what this poster is saying. But then you know that.

That’s what she was saying. Maybe she will come back and clarify for your comprehension.

It’s up to politicians to not drive people out. If Labour are doing this it’s on them. They are lacking understanding of behaviour and will decrease tax receipts.

Grow up.