To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

There are people posting online claiming they will leave the country, and I think they should actually follow through instead of just saying it. I suggest anyone planning to leave to really go and take all their assets with them—absolutely everything. Don’t leave anything behind, as people in the country might seize them.

OP gets her info. from the Adam Smith Institute but doesn’t have the intellect to consider why they might want to “other” huge swathes of the population. That bastion of fairness Madsen Pirie sure does speak for the common good!!

How has privatisation of public utilities gone and other great ideas such as the Poll Tax??

Zero critical thinking underpinned by an “I must be right because I’m a high earner” attitude.

Get your head out of the Daily Mail, get out into your local community and give a little of yourself back to others.

You live in a wonderful country, stop thinking about yourself and you may start to enjoy it.

I think the point this poster was making was that any decent society is defined by how it supports its most vulnerable - including the sick and disabled. The problem in the UK, is that every time money needs to be found it’s always the sick and disabled at the forefront of cuts to find that money. They are the low hanging fruit because they have no voice and can’t fight back. If the proposed cuts go ahead thousands of genuinely disabled people are going to be rendered ineligible for support. Their need doesn’t just disappear overnight because the government stops funding it. If similar cuts were proposed to any of the benefits available to parents, the tone of the conversation would be very different and MN would be exploding with indignance.

Seize them? What do you mean? Be precise, please.

Don't know what English utopia you live in. But in Leeds sons partner sends a pretty, natural blonde employee down to the cellar when a particular group of males come in because they stroke her hair and make lewd remarks.

The girls finish at different times to catch trains, buses. The boss walks every one of them or puts them in a taxi to get home safely. At the other end parents, partners pick them up.

The company has to suck up this expense if they want to keep staff.

It used to be safe if you were a Yorkshire keen walker to put on your boots and hit the Dales. Now there's fear.

Think she means steal perhaps

I want to hear that from the PP, if so.

I am confident she/he will now remain silent, however.

I don't disagree with you. I don't have an issue paying tax to support the vulnerable British. I pay a fair bit. I just object to a lot of the other things the government chose to spend money on instead and I object to a lot of how those taxes are raised in a clearly idealogical counter productive way.

Don't assume that everyone who objects to the benefits Bill being so vast object to supporting the vulnerable in society.

Sounds feasible.

Agree. Beyond the word salad, it’s essentially the same thing.

You are incredible - a huge earner yet you are still sad and see negativity all around. Do things you enjoy and stop complaining just because some of us workers don't die at 68 like your grandparents generation.

Maybe you are depressed and do not realise it - maybe you could volunteer in some capacity - somehow I feel you are separated from life. The world does not need to change for you. But you need to do something different.

If they dumped the triple lock
Charged us for healthcare
Raised taxes again

Which they have been advised to. That would solve today's problems. Would upset a lot of people today. They might not win the next election outright though.

Are you looking forward to higher taxes in Autumn with Labour?

I think you're being a little dismissive of the Adam Smith Institute there. Which of their figures do you disagree with?

I used to work for a large company and as far as I could tell their view was benefits were there to underpin their wage bill. They only needed to pay what the market would bare and allow the state to top it up, miminum wage was their starting point. More senior staff they wanted to hold onto were well paid.

Not particularly but it's inevitable and more.

You are making this up or your sons partner is running a very dodgy business.
accepting such behaviour from clients

I do love mumsnet sometimes.🤣. People are so funny and patronising. Please tell me in what way I am wrong.

Firstly they are not going to raise direct taxes on voters and secondly, I don't think higher rate taxpayers pay enough tax.

Wish I was. But you carry on chasing rainbows

And how do you propose those people who are elderly, sick, disabled and have pre-existing health conditions pay for that healthcare, given that insurance would preclude them or make it prohibitively expensive ? And at the the same time dumping the triple lock making it even more difficult for pensioners to pay the healthcare charges you’re proposing ? And raising taxes for who exactly. The stretched middle who are already paying for most things ?

As always, there is the interesting question of what gets counted and where it gets attributed. Women's labour is invisible and undervalued. For example, I expect I am a net taker right now because I have had two children at school and I am developing health problems. On the other hand, I worked full time for 20 years before I had my kids, one of my dc was adopted from care, and I have been unpaid carer for my ex who has dementia. Those last two will have saved the public purse a significant amount of money, but it is never counted.

Similarly, I think it is a scandal that we subsidise low wages to the extent we do. Why does this spending always focus on the low paid recipients, rather than the feckless employers?

Broadly, it will always be true that the wealthy do not get direct value for the tax they pay. They do get considerable indirect value, such as living in a relatively clean, safe country with great cultural capital. The UK is going through a rough time, and it would be nice if the OP could stick around and support her country, but in the end everyone has the right to be an economic migrant if they can find a country to take them.

Are you familiar with ‘fiscal drag’?

They already are - it’s called fiscal drag. More people being dragged into paying tax because the thresholds are not being raised in line with everything else.

I'm sorry (not)

Are you including the pensions I worked for in those stats @Taxed ?