To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

I'm sure overwhelmingly most top earners feel they should pay their fair share of tax, that's not the point. The point is that the net contributors are outnumbered by the net takers. There's just no point in people complaining that the net takers are not sufficiently well looked after if there are just too many of them. A welfare state can only be designed to cater to a vulnerable few, not to a vulnerable majority. Obviously once the vulnerable are the majority, the maths just doesn't add up. And it's clearly a problem that too many people are claiming, not enough are contributing.

All those able bodied people in the middle ground who are neither contributing nor claiming are also to blame - they are economically inactive at a time in their life when the economy needs them to be contributing. They are living off the infrastructure created by other people's contributions. All those people choosing to work part time when they could work full time are also part of the problem. For society to thrive, everyone has to be contributing to their maximum, incentivised to create the maximum wealth they can.

t's everyone's fault who is not working as hard/long as they could be as well as the fault of the politicians who have failed to put the appropriate incentives in place.

Surely @op means 52% of the population gain more than they pay in. This includes the maintenance of roads, the functioning of prisons, schools, government departments, access to a GP and healthcare more broadly…. in-work benefits, pensions, and all the other stuff and costs of running a vaguely civilised, developed country. We all benefit from workers being able to send their kids to schools, from motorways and roads, from having a judicial system, etc.

if you pay more than £15k income tax (excluding VAT, council tax, etc) , you’re contributing to the costs of keeping everything running. If you pay less than £15k, you benefit from more than you’re paying for.

PPs have been keen to insert themselves into the middle of the question, but it’s broader than that - not about individuals.

I often think about it myself.

Have you ever lived anywhere else other than the UK op? I have lived in 3 other countries and in my experience things are not magically, totally different elsewhere, they are just different. Some aspects better, some worse. Plus unless you go to English speaking country, or are already fluent in the language, you will find that learning another language is hard, and if you don't you'll be isolated in an expat community which can be tedious.
I'm not denying the UK has major issues, or that some other countries are better governed, but people tend to overstate the benefits of living abroad and understatement the challenges.
This is all before you factor in leaving behind aging relatives, though maybe that's not a factor in your case.
Most expats I know are a bit stuck where they are, and they miss aspects of 'home'.

Where is this different component stat? The only 52.6% I can see is the ONS one on @TreeDudettepost

That figure has been widely debunked. I posted a link, but for some reason it has been hidden. But anyway it is a really comprehensive analysis of the Henley and Partners report. Hopefully the link will clear soon.

There are only 150 billionaires in the UK.

I suspect PP is troubled and flabbergasted by the economic and fiscal illiteracy of the post.

Yeah that’s why PP said billionaires AND multi millionaires.

And it’s not exactly something to rejoice about that rich people are so small in number. It’s not the gotcha you may think it is.

@justasking111 this is the Tax Policy Associates' conclusion on the report which predicted the 16,500 number. If you google you will find a very comprehensive analysis. I tried to link to it but MN doesn't like the link for some reason:

wages are way too low. Someone working full time shouldn't have to rely on the state but these days in many places a full time NMW does barely cover housing. What do you suggest OP.

Not everybody can be a high flying banker or doctor. Do you run your own business. How much do you pay your staff esp if these are roles in which do not require qualifications.

I'm ambitious and successful but I'm not in the top 1% of earners- nowhere near!
Depends what you mean by successful..I guess for you success is money? I find your post offensive to be honest. Almost greedy, but also I feel sorry for you with your lack of empathy for other people and people's circumstances.
I work frontline NHS by the way.

The original post?

I mean, surely most people other than the very very top earners end up being economically neutral at best when we consider over input/useage over our lifetimes. The tax burden wouldn’t feel so heavy if the money was used for the right things and our services were fit for purpose. If we hadn’t been subject to 20+ years of media poor baiting and being told our lives are rubbish because of benefit claimants etc the opinion towards people who need to rely on the state may be more sympathetic & compassionate. The elitist media are very good making sure the finger never points their way :/

???

Your post was downright offensive, you meant to say, surely.

More than 630,000 graduates are claiming benefits, according to official figures that cast doubt on the value of “Mickey Mouse” degrees.

A total of 639,000 people with an honours degree or similar level qualification are claiming Universal Credit, according to the first data of its kind released to Parliament.

That is equal to more than one in nine (11.9 per cent) of Universal Credit claimants and is four percentage points below the proportion with no qualifications.

Those without any qualifications who are receiving Universal Credit numbered 849,000, representing 15.9 per cent of claimants, according to the data from the Labour Force Survey for March to May this year, released to Parliament by the UK Statistics Authority.

It’s truly fucked.

I've literally said in this thread that I don't blame people claiming benefits. I blame the government's who have created the system. But I also don't think anyone else owes anyone a living. Blame who is responsible here; the people who make the policy. Not everyone else.

I'm not the Chancellor thank goodness. So I don't have to solve the problems (although I would.stop the triple lock. That would be a start). But if there isn't enough money coming in to pay for everything then there isn't enough money.

The UK is mad. Of my 6 cousins on my mum's side (and I don't think my dad's is any better but I don't really know them) only 1 (like me) works full time, but she would still qualify for child benefit, not sure about UC, one has never had a job at all (early 50s, addiction issues), one has never had a full time job but has sporadically had some part time jobs (a managed medical condition) and one worked for about 2 years as a teenager and then again in her early 30s for about 18 months (no idea really how she gets away with being on benefits, she has an adult child now) and the other two has not worked in about 20/15 years respectively, one having formerly had a job that they enjoyed but which is now essentially extinct (he is depressed which I suspect is largely linked to lack of a career or any aspirations whatsoever in life) and the second having bought then sold their council house only to then move into another and lived off the proceeds plus benefits. It's not because their husbands/wives (3 are currently married 2 never married) are CEOs but all because they are simply perfectly comfortable on benefits. I am a strong advocate for benefits as a safety net and frankly a gone safety net but this situation is ridiculous. I grew up in a working class family but my generation are not working class any more - they are benefits class.

I moved overseas in 2016 - a key benefit to this (not the driver at the time) is that I pay less than 20% tax now. The infrastructure in our adopted country is sometimes highly questionable but obviously we have private healthcare etc and it is not very expensive to pay for healthcare anyway which is no frills but decent quality and much quicker than the NHS. The schools are good up to high school level and again with the tax I save I can pay for good education for my children at high school - no "catchment areas says no" nonsense.

I would prefer a happy medium. Paying say 30% - 35% tax (not the 60% that would now be my top slice rate if I was still in the UK) and a slightly better standard of support and social care than my current country provides. But not freebies for all who just can't be bothered to work.

In my view, based on recent conversations, there seems to be a growing sense that the wealthy no longer feel as welcome or safe in the UK.

It is worrying to me as we are, in the UK, already more dependent on higher earners than one might expect. We are more reliant on high earners than, say, the Scandinavian model (which generally taxes all workers heavily, not just the highest earners). Over 60% of all income tax receipts comes from the top 10% of earners - which is anyone that earns over £59k approximately.

Cameron’s government were also responsible for abolishing DLA in favour of PIP, and proudly announcing that the new benefit would include claimants with mental health conditions - something which DLA did not support. Which is why we find ourselves in the position we do today - because it’s difficult to substantiate self declared mental health and the Equality Act 2010 doesn’t require a formal diagnosis for someone to be defined as disabled. So many claims are admitted simply because they can’t be disproved and the bill for disability benefits has ballooned as a consequence.

The reason people are annoyed by you is because you think you’ve done it all through hard work. As if that’s all you need to do.

Well I find it offensive that the OP is disparaging our great country and would rather leave than try to help make it better.

If that’s how the OP feels I would rather they weren’t here and let those of us who want to rebuild from the mess the Tories made, get on with it.

Interesting. Well, I'm not an apologist for the Conservatives. A.plague on all their houses (at the moment. Fingers crossed that changes).

Oh my 😂😂😂

Tell us you don't understand socialism without telling us you don't understand socialism.