To think that there is no hope here?

[Taxed]

52.6% of UK individuals are reliant on the State (that is 35 million people). Only 47.4% are net contributors. How did we get here?

AIBU to think that the UK is now a declining economy that will never recover if this continues to be the case?

I am 49 and a high earner (just shy of the top 1%). My husband is also a high earner and we are thinking of leaving. We don't know where but we know we have to as the situation in the UK is getting worse not better. The only thing that is keeping us here is our son, who is still in secondary school. I am actively encouraging him to consider a future outside of the UK.

I genuinely feel that being ambitious and successful is not worth it in the UK. People hate you for it and want to see you penalised. They think that whatever you do to earn the money it must be easy and a breeze. That you are greedy and need to be made to pay for doing well. Just last week, I heard that the government might be thinking of implementing a charge, payable by high earners, to access the NHS. Everything is about taxing the already heavily taxed even more and few want to face up to the fact that this is unsustainable when you have most of your people relying on the State to live.

People complain about the immigrants but they make up a tiny proportion of 35 million.

I feel disliked for doing well and just can't see a future here and it is making me angry and sad. I believe in having a welfare state, in helping those who are in need but 52.6%? The country is on its knees when most of its people are in need. That is like a developing country not a developed and thriving economy.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm just tired, sad and have just about lost hope of enjoying life in the UK.

Most of those people are working. The state isn’t really subsidising them, it’s subsidising companies to pay wages that do not cover the costs living.

This is from ONS, most recent when searched and matches that figure

• The proportion of people living in households receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes decreased from 53.6% to 52.6%; this is the continuation of a downward trend following a sharp increase during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic (FYE 2021).

It talks about the proportion of households receiving more in benefits than paid in income taxes

It’s ONS not Adam Smith and doesn’t mention public sector salaries.

Thank you @JHound !

@Taxed you really are a bit dim aren’t you? Because if this is the study and it includes pensioners then these are people who have contributed via earnings for 40plus years. And earners in the public sector who themselves will be paying tax back in (2 experienced economists working at HMT could easily both be higher rate tax payers but they’d still be included in the Adam Smith study as “reliant”).

As ever the devil is in the detail…

No, I'm not working hard. Someone has just handed me my education, the sacrifices and the choices I made were made by the fairy godmother and I do nothing at work except collect a pay check. Definitely my success came not from hard work but from hot air.

... and still 52% and growing is net dependent on the state. People are asking all sorts of silly questions to detract from that fact. No, we can't kill pensioners off. There will be no state pension until 74 and eventually no state pension at all. That will solve part of the problem but it is radical and we should not have reached this state. We do not have 35 million pensioners. 52 plus percent equates to over 35 million. How many of that are pensioners?

We can run away from the problem but it is chasing us down and has over taken us.

@Taxed are the stats you're referring to?

Full breakdown (of the adult population reliant on the state)

State Pension Recipients: 12, 635,000 (23.29%)

Universal Credit Recipients, including unemployed people: 6,340,000 (11.69%)

Public Sector Employees: 5,940,000 (10.95%)

Higher Education Students: 2,937,155 (5.41%)

Higher Education Employees: 240,420 (0.44%)

Human Resources Employees: 139,623 (0.26%)

Planning Sector Employees: 22,000 (0.04%)

The vast majority of the 52% are employees (presumably includes NHS, teachers etc), students and pensioners.

Only 11% are people who are unemployed or needing their income topped up.

Which part of this do you object to?
You want fewer people to access HE?
You want older people to work until later in life / die earlier?
Fewer public sector employees?

I so wish Labour sympathised with you. I have two young people just going out into the world. Desperate to work to support themselves. Not fussy what they do. It's such a shame that Labour have reduced so significantly the number of job opportunities that young people can get to start the employment ladder. It's as if they want people on benefits for some reason. As if they want people to be beholden to the party of benefits.

I think people are (and will be) too busy point fingers at the evil immigrants stealing jobs (and benefits! we steal both) to ever be ready to tackle the very simple, sad fact that there’s a big culture of state reliance in the UK that needs serious addressing. Having full-time work as the end goal in your adult life shouldn’t be treated as optional.
I’m an immigrant and my partner is English, we have back and forths about this all too frequently. Some people (him included) don’t believe the figures and fully think that even if British citizens make up the majority of benefit receivers, they’re probably British passport holders, not “British British”.

Saying that, I think people should be proud that they are from a place where the government has provisions in place to help struggling residents.

I also think the idea that people hate you for doing well is ridiculous and I’d be embarrassed to type that. I think if you feel that strongly then yes, relocating is an option. But if you relocate to an “expat” haven locals will resent you just the same, if not more.

What is the imbalance you think Labour has bought about in the last year that was not there during the preceding 15 years of Tory rule?

Source please OP

Increasing union influence.

I don’t know how you can date a man like that tbh. I cannot abide people who disregard data that does not confirm to their biases nor believes in a multi-tiered class of citizen.

But agree that too many see work, full time work as an “optional extra”.

I was always amazed post uni that some of my cohort / housemates in my life thought it was acceptable to be on jobseekers until they found the right role worthy of their qualifications.

These were all “British British” people as your partner would call them.

I was raised to do whatever paid the bills while seeking a better employment.

Not saying anyone is owed a living. At all. And yes, the welfare state needs a shake up so that people don’t become reliant in the first place, but in order to do that, other things have to change too. A decent day’s work for a decent day’s pay is a thing of the past.

Yes I do think it's ok to live in a country where the state protects it's people. Did you grow up poor, or with money? Have you ever inherited money? Or been given money by your parents? Because, if so, you have received hand outs as well. It just came from a different source. If you think you can lord yourself around and pretend you never got any handouts to get you where you are, you are in denial.

Both those parties will carry on giving benefits to the people who vote for them.

I know so many people who exploit/cheat the benefit system. Some are outright cheats, who get by on welfare and petty crime, others want to be ill. Being in the system is lovely. If you have some kind of label, everyone takes care of you and everyone makes a fuss of you. I have seen this time and again. The woman who lives opposite me has two grown children, both in their 30s. Both of them have lived on benefits their whole life. But no one knows exactly what is wrong, and my neighbour is always vague on the details. Both are grotesquely overweight, and both walk with a cane. They seem to have a range of ‘problems’ from depression to backache to ‘poor mobility’. My neighbour has somehow ended up with a sort of van for disabled people that she’s been given by the taxpayer. She’s registered as their carer, and so needs the van thing to drive them around. Neither of them live with her btw. I once saw her pull up with her son. As usual, he got out of the car with his cane, but just as he did so it poured with rain and he ran, RAN, into the house. I often see her pull up with her daughter as well, after a shopping trip. And as they enter the house the daughter is shovelling donuts or family bags of Doritos into her mouth. They ‘re not criminals. They’re just selfish and lazy, with low IQs and an ingrained sense of entitlement.

The left have such a silly, childish view of those on benefits. They seem to think everyone who claims is some kind of Dickensian orphan. It’s the same with immigration. Where normal, sane people see boatloads of arrogant young men, many of them criminals or rootless drifters, the left see helpless women and children fleeing ‘persecution’.

The sad thing, of course, is that there really are people who need help. There really are good people in shit circumstances. There really are people crippled with depression or back pain or whatever. There really are old people who can’t afford to heat their homes. I just don’t know how you can penalise the fakes while helping the genuine. No one seems to have any answers. I utterly despise people like my neighbour and her kids. The money wasted on them could be spent on new cancer drugs, or safe homes for abused women, or centres for the elderly and lonely, or countless other things.

Yes that I agree with.

It's not just cash benefits, it's also a value attributed to free healthcare and using schools, for example. So 52% of people are not receiving more cash than they pay in, but when you assign a value to the services they benefit from (some universal and some not) then they are net reciptients.

I agree op. Too many boomers retiring way too early expecting state pay outs for 40 years. It needs to stop. Too many on benefits and not in work.

Op are you referring to this stat from ONS?

• The proportion of people living in households receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes decreased from 53.6% to 52.6%; this is the continuation of a downward trend following a sharp increase during the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic (FYE 2021).

Ok, but don’t come back and use the NHS like the other British-Israelis I know

I don’t think I it was an ironic post given that the poster who wrote the post is a big supporter of the country she and her dh wish to move to.

22.8% on benefits of any sort (DWPs own figures, quoted in the Independent.So not 52%.

You do realise that OP will now disappear in a puff of smoke because you’ve just blown her whole narrative out of the water ?🤣

What increased union influence has there been in the last 12 months?

None more so than our current Labour government. A blasphemy law being a prime example.