AIBU to say men who believe this are sexist pricks

[Oddsocksanduglyshoes]

Men who refuse to watch the euro finals tomorrow as it’s women’s football - so what’s the point and refuse to watch, and say this in front of they wives and daughters are misogynistic pricks and their wives and daughters deserve so much better?

All this tells me is that you don’t understand societal stereotypes and expectations in relation to sport, specifically male dominated sport such football.

We were saying this the other day.
It’s incredulous that the goals are the same size despite the differences in height between the average male and female goal keeper.

Sorting out the footwear so they don’t ruin women’s feet might be good as well

As far as I can tell I couldn't find a thread about the tournament on MN, there doesn't appear to be much interest for it but now that they are in the final it's become a virtuous thing to watch it (I wonder how many people here for the YANBU watched the previous matches).

With women's football it seems to revolve around the debate of why people need to watch it and support it because of the issues at play, rather than the sporting spectacle in itself.

I don't know any family members (male or female) who are interested and quite a few have been put off with this feeling that it is being forced on everyone.

@HighLadyofTheNightCourt ,

‘All this tells me is that you don’t understand societal stereotypes and expectations in relation to sport, specifically male dominated sport such football.’

People spend their money on what they like, not based on societal expectations (or far less at least).

I like objective tests. So we can look at prices, speeds, shot accuracy, control etc etc.

Or you can suggest a better objective test?

But if you are saying that it is axiomatically sexism that people prefer (most) men’s sport, then obviously there is no discussion to be had, as I don’t accept your axiom.

Isn't it exactly the same game but women are playing?

i would say no for a few reasons.
Fans get involved with the backstory, the context, the history. Soap opera basically. If you don't 'know' the players so well, then a lot of the enjoyment gets lost. It's hard to just switch the league you follow and get same pleasure out of watching a match. One reason I'm invested in the women's game now is because I slightly know an elite player & following her has caused me to know the rest of national team... 'knowing' the players is huge part of being a fan.\

xH & I both follow men's pro-cycling... for various reasons xH also follows women pros... he personally knows one elite cyclist well and has come to know many others as a fan. He can get a lot of pleasure out of just 'knowing' who is strong or weak and their backstory, right now inthe season.

I heard some people say the women's game is weaker wrt tecnical or physical aspects... if those are aspects you utterly want to see, calibrated to recent pro men;s standards, you may feel disappointed. I find that eventually die hard footie fans come to appreciate other aspects of the women's game or they learn to recalibrate what physical strength & skill they hope to see.

I've heard a lot of fans say the men's game is more crazy skilled but the lack of amateur dramatics is wonderfully refershing in the gal's game.

Different not the same.

In the case of Wimbledon (and the other 3 Grand Slams) there are other factors in play. The.men's matches tend to be much longer so fans looking for 'value for money' might prefer the men's final for that reason. Earlier in the tournament I enjoy women's tennis as much as men's - and so does DH - but if you are only going to see one match, then there's good reason to want to watch for 3 hours rather than 1.

To be fair putting pampered today footballers on a pock marked bumpy muddy field without undergrass heating and a velvet surface with a ball as heavy as a small car would be interesting as well!

some smoked at half time
and were down pub at weekends

different times

as we are now

@thing47 ,

But why are men’s matches longer (3 sets compared to three sets)? I would argue that the men’s game is an awful lot deeper.

There are times when I have enjoyed the women’s game (Navratilova, Steffi Graff, the Williams sisters). They were genuinely mentally tough players and had that gladiatorial attitude which makes tennis such a great sport.

But an awful lot of men have that attitude which makes men’s tennis a more exciting sport.

As I said above, I like objective evidence and I accept we don’t have it here. I would love to see women play best of 5 in the slams to see if it made it better).

How much would you pay for a pair of tickets for the men’s World Cup final and the women’s?
I would only see the men's final if my son wanted to go and would only pay if it was a gift to him within my budget (unlikely) or he paid. Viewing is much better on tv, anyway. I'd love to see Lionesses in person in a WC final! Would totally contemplate many prices for that. I guess I'm a sexist pig then, according to PP's logic.

Ditto for men’s and women’s Wimbledon finals?
I loathe tennis. Can I flog the tickets instead?

Does it make you sexist if you would pay more to see the men?
or more (anything) to see the women? I don't support any claim that women can't be sexist.

Haha tell me you’re a man without telling me you’re a man!

’don’t agree with you so there is no discussion to be had!!’ (insert big word so I sound clever 😂)

Don’t worry, I try to avoid talking to blatant misogynists where possible.

@HighLadyofTheNightCourt ,

I have noticed that you prefer attacking people than arguments.

So non engagement suits me well.

Well no, because at the Grand Slams the men play best of 5 sets and the women play the best of 3. Obviously on average then the men's matches will be longer.

There is a case for arguing that women's tennis doesn't have quite the same strength in depth as men's, though even that is much less the case than it was 20 years ago. And incidentally some of the women hit the ball harder than the men, in terms of speed of the ball off the racket face, the difference is more that the men apply many more spins to their groundstrokes, whereas the women tend to hit flatter so there is slightly less variety in their play.

After this thread I hope there is a very active thread for the final this afternoon.

Like for all the other matches?

If by ‘attacking’ you mean calling out sexism and misogyny then I’ll take that 👌

Funny how you avoided answering the questions I had on an earlier post of yours. Seems you’re only interested in the ‘discussions’ you can shut down.
Not surprised though tbh.

It’s not my fault the men’s tickets were more expensive than the women’s, I think the men’s was overpriced tbh. You’d need to speak to UEFA if you want to see pricing parity. Both matches were sold out so people want to go and are willing to travel around Europe to see the games - men’s and women’s.

Do we really see women as lesser in 2025 because they aren’t quite as fast or strong as men at sports designed for men where men get the lion’s share of the funding and support? I’m surprised more posters aren’t angry that women aren’t being treated with parity and instead fall back on ‘well men are just better’. So they bloody should be with all the extras they are getting!

Given that the speed of penalties (and shots in general for that matter) is basically never measured, I'm really not sure how it's possible to know this.

The fact that the men's sold out (and could have done so many, many times over) at that price surely by definition means that they weren't overpriced. It's like when people claim the Premier League is overpriced, and yet the stadiums are consistently full with most teams having waiting lists for season tickets that stretch back years, or even decades.

I heard an absolutely vile man on LBC yesterday morning. He was saying that he wouldn't be watching it 'because it was women',and 'nobody is interested in women's football'. Thankfully the presenter took him to task over his comments. Personally,I won't be watching it,but that's because I'm not the slightest bit interested in football. If it was men playing I still wouldn't be watching it!

Completely different scenario.

In pure speed events everything is relative. If you changed the men’s 100m final to runners whose average times were 11s instead of 10s I doubt many people would notice.

The problem with football is skill and strength combined make the game watchable. Women’s football can’t ever compete with men’s football as a spectacle for that reason.

The ticketing issue is far more stark in the black market than it is with face value.

The men’s euros final at Wembley vs Italy were all priced many time higher than any women’s game. They were also trading for around £3k on the secondary market with no shortage of buyers.

Last summer I went to Berlin with DH for the final vs Spain. Despite being overseas and only having 3 days notice people were still willing to pay £1500 for tickets and £700+ for last minute flights. No women’s game would get anywhere near that level of demand.

Tickets for today’s game were easily available on the secondary market for a tiny fraction of the price of the equivalent men’s game. If anything you could argue that the men’s tickets at around 10 times the fave value of women’s tickets are still underpriced based on market forces.

The goalies are still all 6 footers.
And there's always talk about making the men's goals larger to get more goals; Making them smaller would mean fewer goals and less excitement.
Then there's the question about parks. The council having to provide women's goals and men's goal would be a major pain.

I think it’s okay for a man to say he doesn’t want to watch women’s football because he finds the nature of the game quite different to men’s football and he prefers the flow of the men’s. I know a man who much prefers to watch women’s football because he prefers the way the game flows so it’s just the reverse of that.

However, there’s a certain kind of man like the Joey Barton type who seem so angry at the existence of women’s football, women’s voices, just really angry and aggressive about how much they hate it. That kind of man 100% his opposition is rooted in misogyny. I feel sorry for the daughter of men like that but typically their wives have the same kind of mindset as their husband or they wouldn’t have chosen him in the first place so I don’t feel sorry for those women.

There was a caller to London radio about women’s football and he seemed so enraged. So angry. Even arguing that women’s football should be on “its own channel” so he does not have to see it. So weird. But then so many men do hate women so…..shrugs.

Also the men who keep going on about women’s football being “inferior” because they could not beat men. So? Women don’t play men they play women.
Who cares if they could not beat men?