Is my best friend racist?

[Newnamefortouchysubject]

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

This is an unfair reading.
Pointing out real differences in integration between communities isn’t the same as promoting bigotry. Dismissing it as ‘hatred’ shuts down any honest conversation.

If it is as bad as you think where would you prefer?

This thread as gone the way of many others. A couple of posters attempting to shut down the debate by derailing it into lazy accusations of isms, ists and phobias. It’s very important that this is discussed as it’s likely to be the biggest issue in the next election so please ignore the usual suspects.

Agreed. I’ve just tracked back through all the posts from a particularly poster on this thread - all contain personal attacking style language and attempts to shut down other opinions and reasonable debates. Like you - I think it is incredibly important to understand the opinions and experiences of others without accusations of racism etc.

First, that was 2023, that number has increased significantly since then.

Second, it’s not just those from Afghanistan, it’s those from similar cultures, such as Pakistan, Eritrea, Somalia etc. Just look at the make up of the grooming gangs.

I’m not saying there are no ethnically English sex offenders. Of course there are!

It’s not rife.

Just a few more years to wait until Reform take over and hopefully we’ll see some common sense restored.
I mean, Starmer is practically handing it to them on a plate now.

I agree with you but the pp has put their negative view and seems to believe it. I’m wondering where they think is better

I can offer an alternative perspective without preferring to be anywhere else.

I think something that gets over-looked in these discussions is that there are more options than "integrate fully or don't come" and "come to stay and maintain values and lifestyles as if you were back where you came from."

I've lived in a place where there were a good number of workers from outside. Many did partake of the local culture to a greater or lesser degree, a very few would marry and stay there, which was the only way to become naturalized. But visitors often did spend a lot of time with their fallow citizens of wherever they were from, especially those who had a differernt native language. And actually, that was fine. No one thought it was especially rude or bad. And people were happy to have them there to contribute to the economy.

But there was no idea that these people would somehow become part of local culture or there was no differernce or that local people should change to be more like them. And that they would respect local customs etc was just a fact, or they would be told to leave.

The problem really is people who are not integrating while staying long term, even gene rationally, and expecting to be treated as citizens. Even ex-pat retirement communities are often fine, as long as they aren't causing problems like housing issues. They don't generally expect to influence culture or politics or anything like that. They know they can be asked to leave if they are anti-social, break the law, etc.

It is unless you live in an echo chamber.

First, that was 2023, that number has increased significantly since then.

No, it was 19 in 2024 as well. Here is the breakdown of number of sexual offences by nationality:

1. India 38
2. Romania 27
3. Poland 27
4. Pakistan 20
5. Afghanistan 19

https://www.migrationcentral.co.uk/p/up-to-third-of-sexual-assaults-committed

Happy to present a positive argument - since you seem to have missed all the evidence around you. British Muslims are contributing every day: building businesses, serving in the NHS, teaching in schools, leading in politics, and enriching arts, culture, and community life. That is integration - it’s just not the version you want, where people erase who they are to blend in. Multiculturalism doesn’t mean the absence of difference - it means difference without division. And for all the noise, most people live that reality every single day without needing to shout about it online.

You’ve clearly led a very sheltered life OP. I suggest you break out of your protected bubble and get some actual experience of what the real world is like before judging your friend.

She is correct, by the way.

?

So it’s as bad as you say but you want to stay, or maybe it’s hard to say where is better. What do you like about living where you do, anything?

Yes, sexual grooming does unfortunately feature as part of some cultures… And that includes sub-cultures, especially religious ones, that predominantly white people are part of…. This isn’t a “race” thing! Why are @nomas and others so insistent that it is!

I have no issue with people criticising certain elements of British culture if they are doing so with good faith… I may disagree, and in some instances I may agree, but I definitely don’t get offended and think others are being racist for doing so!

Wow, the masks are really slipping off big time.

So British Muslims don’t contribute? They aren’t building businesses, serving in the NHS, teaching in schools, leading in politics, and enriching arts, culture, and community life, as Merry says?

I also agree with your friend. She is not being racist

The blame from the left always seems to be the white folks when it comes down to lack of integration and dishing out racism. There is a lot of hate towards white people noticed very much if you live in an area where white people are a minority and I live and work in large areas where you rarely see/hear a white person. I've always been welcoming and decent towards anyone but I see experience and observe very much closed off outsider thing which never used to.matter when the community's were small but not helpful or a positive thing long term if you want to achieve a happy UK where people respect/understand each other more. I think if people mixed a little more all around there would be less suspicion and happier mixed communities.

British Muslims are contributing every day: building businesses, serving in the NHS, teaching in schools, leading in politics, and enriching arts, culture, and community life. That is integration - it’s just not the version you want, where people erase who they are to blend in.

Where that happens, that’s great, and I don’t doubt that’s happening to some
degree. That is precisely the integration I think people on this thread want, but that’s not the issue here…

aka if you don't like it go live somewhere else?

If you don't like what I have to say why don't you go and live somewhere else.

Totally agree with your friend

If the argument went over your head, feel free to scroll up and reread it - I’m not here to simplify reality into soundbites just to fit someone else’s narrative.

ItKs not easy to leave friends and family, those are the ties that bind.