This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

You indeed were suggesting it was untrue. Simply because it was in the DM. At least own it.

Exactly. No need for death row when there is no doubt they are innocent. Money saved too I don’t see why so many people are against thisz

So you believe that there have been no miscarriages of justice. That no innocent people have faced the death penalty.

An immediate death sentence with no chance of appeal is not justice, it's vigilantism and barbaric.

So what about the proven miscarriages of justice.

Surely every conviction is beyond reasonable doubt?

Either way this type of historical injustice is not relevant to the types of cases I am talking about where the death penalty should be applied.

What are you not getting? Cases like the Southport killer or Lee rugby or this case with the baby etc where there was no doubt who killed them. There is no miscarriage of justice to be considered so how could the wrong person be executed?

Of course it would. People on juries aren't likely all to espouse the same views as this poster.

Who decides what’s civilised or not? You? Me? Why is taking revenge or exacting retribution against creatures like this so ‘uncivilised’? Personally, I believe the minute you start killing kids you lose all right to live in a ‘civilised’ society. Do you really believe, that a person with his mentality, gives a single fuck about a civilised society? Do you honestly believe that simply putting him a cell, where he will have access to food, clean water, a dry clean bed is actual punishment for what he did? That’s not a punishment to him, it’s simply protecting us from him doing it again. There is no punishment.

Some of the people advocating for the death penalty on this thread would be prime candidates themselves. Because they actually have murderous tendencies themselves, but they hide those behind supposed desire for justice

You don’t believe in justice, you have a desire to kill people, but you suppress the desire to kill the innocent, you live it out by claiming that it’s good to kill the guilty.

“Take them out the back and shoot them between the eyes”? “Hang them after the guilty verdict,”.

That’s a desire to kill and nothing else. So let’s not pretend you’re righteous citizens, you’re murderers in the making.

There’s a difference between believing the death penalty would be a just punishment but being open to discussion on the why’s and wherefore’s, and being totally closed to any discussion and name calling anyone who doesn’t share your desire to kill people.

Confidently asserts the poster who clearly didn’t understand what suppression of evidence was upthread and was also batting that away as a potential problem.

It’s evident from this thread that there is a lot of support for the death penalty among people who don’t understand the problems with it and aren’t about to.

There is no nice neat dividing line between ‘definitely did it’ and other crimes. It’s an absolute non-starter so the posters on here salivating over courtrooms doubling up as firing ranges should just admit they’re happy to accept miscarriages of justice and barbarism to sate their bloodlust.

I would venture to suggest @LBFseBrom that if you need a newspaper article, regardless from which paper, to be 'incited' to feel 'outrage' over this, rather than it occurring naturally in you, then that's sad.

Does that change the fact there are cases where it is cut and dry? No.

You cannot claim to be civilised if you think it's OK to kill people. You are simply descending to the level of murderers.

If you think being in prison is not a punishment, you should try it sometime. People seem to have the most unbelievably sanitised view of life in prison. Think about sharing your cell with a couple of thugs and an open toilet, locked up 23 hours a day or more at times, food cooked by criminals who've probably spat or urinated in it, communal showers, people shouting and screaming around you all night - to say nothing of the danger of violent assault if you upset the wrong person.

But surely all life imprisonments are but and dried…. That’s what the great British justice system states.

In that case, as everyone who is born dies eventually, does anything really matter. Why even bother to convict him? If he hadn't murdered his son, and just let him live out his natural life, the end result would be the same.

This gave me a good laugh.

There are multiple reasons why the death penalty is not an effective way to reduce crimes. If you don’t care about that and want this man in particular dead, then you are seeking revenge rather than punishment and that’s fucked up.

Even something that appears cut and dried isn't necessarily, in criminal law terms. For instance, someone who clearly committed the act isn't proved to have the requisite intent, or they have a defence such as self defence, insanity, automatism etc

Cases where it is truly cut and dried are few and far between.

What does cut and dried mean? What evidence is needed? Who decides?

There will be outcry over other horrendous crimes that come exceedingly close to cut and dried but for whatever reason aren’t quite there.

It will leave the families of victims whose murderers are found guilty but not ‘cut and dried guilty’ in a limbo.

It suggests criminals who are found guilty but not ‘cut and dried guilty’ are deserving of lesser punishment.

It suggests we aren’t really sure about whether those criminals should be locked up at all.

… Just a few reasons why this is a ridiculous idea and is not going to happen. Sentencing is not, and should not be about, the strength of a conviction. We cannot have a multi-tier justice system based on how sure we are.

I'm not convinced by arguments that say severe punishment doesn't act as a deterrent. Why is Singapore so safe and clean then?

I'm against the death penalty because of the risk of innocent people being wrongly executed. I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep of it was only actual rapists and murderers being given the death penalty.

How many miscarriages have justice in total since reporting began? Do we think there have been?
Just trying to work out how many times we’ve potentially got it wrong
Saying in the last hundred years

Me too. If killing people is wrong, it's wrong for the state to do it imo.

And that's without even considering the many miscarriages of justice that have occurred over the years.

I don't think there's any point discussing the death penalty when we're not actually applying the laws we already have.

Rape conviction rates are plummeting (see article) and murderers are being given laughably short sentences.

Petty criminals such as shop lifters often just walk free and while official crime rates are decreasing, I'd argue that's because people have stopped reporting crimes since they know the police won't do anything.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/the-decriminalisation-of-rape/#:~:text=Rape%20and%20sexual%20abuse%20have%20been%20effectively%20decriminalised.,were%20just%201%2C659%20rape%20prosecutions%20and%20702%20convictions.

In the states there's an organisation called The Innocence Project and they estimate up to 10% of inmates are innocent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

It is permanent if the person is locked up for their whole life. What else would you call that, other than permanent?

I think for the cases where there is zero doubt the person did it, like in this case, the DP is warranted.

Perhaps those who expect the state to feed, house, clothe, medical care etc the person for life should pay for it? Do a poll, those who are against the death penalty (for cases like this) should have to pay tax in order to fund the inmates care. It shouldn't be put on those who don't want to pay for that person for life.

Just in the last 50 years or so I could probably think of 20-odd off the top of my head: Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, Bridgewater 4, Maguire 7, Broadwater 3, Stefan Kiszko, M25 murderers (3), Judith Ward...

... over 20 already.