To think men only get praised for doing the bare minimum in relationships because expectations are on the floor?

[CandidUmberUser]

“He cooks.” “He listens.” “He doesn’t cheat.”
Wow. Nobel Peace Prize incoming.

Yes but guaranteed in most cases they would have always exhibited those traits. It's just instead of looks they probably shared a common or unique interest and the women held onto this partner because it's rare to finding a partner that shares this interest or passion? They woultn't have turned lousy overnight, the signs would have always been there.

Older women praise. My friends DH got "clever daddy" for pushing the pram. Off random old lady.

I agree with you.

That's because it disrupts the status quo. Partly because people don't like it when women say no to men and partly because women are expected to be the support humans and partly because it forces men to face the consequences of their actions.

They doesn't mean we shouldn't do it though.

I used to think “the signs were always there” but honestly I have seen too much to think that is always the case. I definitely know women ignore certain things just to have a man. And then are shocked the man has not changed to suit her better.

But I have also known men play a role till they think they have a woman locked down.

I do think somethings that are tolerable young become intolerable when you add kids and full time work to the mix.

Childcare is a big one though as it is hard to see the type of parent somebody will be till they are one.

I came home from a weekend away to DH - a very modern man in most respects - grinning from ear to ear saying how he'd cleaned up after himself, hoovered and left the house nice.

My response was "Good, as you should" 🤷🏼‍♀️

Too right!

“The man they marry is young enthusiastic, very few responsibilities or challenges to test his mettle and show his character.”

Women should not even contemplate shackling themselves to someone before they’ve fully seen his character in all situations. I was with my DH a good 3 years before we got married and I can absolutely say that there were no surprises waiting for me in his personality. I’d seen him at his best and worst by then and I knew exactly what was marrying.

Yanbu.

Again who is the "we" accepting crap societal norms?

I know retrograde gender dynamics are pushed in mainstream culture. But they're not on my social media and they're not in the TV shows I watch because guess what, I can curate my life to avoid them.

I find that this kind of hand-wringing on MN specifically is because this site loves mainstream social conformity. It's obsessed with class, "the right way" to do things and policing others' behaviour. It's judgmental of anyone - especially women - who doesn't toe the line. It also promotes very rigid gender stereotypes when it comes to dating: only the most traditional male characteristics are acceptable! And then posters don't know what to do with themselves when it turns out that traditional gender roles and an emphasis on conformity actually fucks women over.

I know this dynamic exists. I know it's crap. But only you (as an individual) can rid it from your life. No one will do that for you.

Women raising their bar isn't about fixing men! It's the exact opposite.

Crap man-children are unfixable. They are who they are. Why would you even try to change them?

Not in my household or any that I know. I hear about this dynamic all the time on Mumsnet and it is completely baffling to me. That said, a lot of people in my social group do hire a lot of outside help, so cleaners multiple times a week, gardeners, etc.

My brother gets praise for doing the bare minimum for my parents too (as an adult) - forgets birthdays and important occasions but that’s acceptable. If it was me or my sister on the other hand, there’d be hell to pay!

I was talking to the mum of one of my friends (we were in our 20s ) and she asked me about my opinion of her then bf. I wasn’t very positive because he was a twat. She replied with “at least this one doesn’t beat her”. 🙄

Men get with women thinking they will never change. Women get with men hoping they will change.

Not the ones who actually use their brains - though in this contest of stupid men vs. stupid women, I would say it is even more stupid to hope someone will change than to assume they'll stay the same.

Both seem pretty stupid.

So neither use their brains then?

I would REALLY like to think/hope that this is a generational thing which we will now see start to disappear.

My husband & I are in our 20’s, 1 daughter and another baby on the way, and I can say absolutely this is not the case in my household or that of my friends. In my own experience mine is a generation of dad’s who are truly hands on and more equal parents. However I do see this in comments from older generations, my gran has often made comments about how brilliant my husband is for…

• Pushing his own daughter in her pram
• Changing his own daughter’s nappy
• Taking his own daughter to the park on his own (God forbid!!!!)
• Giving his own daughter a bottle

I could go on 😂

He is brilliant- but not just because he does the bare minimum!

I do think that is a generation thing though in that my grandad never did any of those things nor would ever have been expected to do any of those things. When they had their kids he was working 12 hour days, 6 days a week, in the factory and my gran never worked. Life looks very different now for couples & families and as I say, I’d like to think my generation have left these expectations (or lack of) in the past where they belong.

I agree it is (hopefully) largely generational thing. My Dad (80's) has no real home/cooking skills as much as anything because Mum has always done it. When I was young most Dads went out to work and it was more unusual for Mums to work. I think my Mum went bakc to work when I was 10/11 so until then did all things domestic.
I have never had a partner that doesn't do an equal share of things in the house, if anything my DH does the majority of the cooking because he enjoys it. Though we do have a few his/her jobs, I am in charge of interoir design and I rarely take the bins out if I can help it 😂

Ah okay I see. Yeah I’d ditch him!