To think men only get praised for doing the bare minimum in relationships because expectations are on the floor?

[CandidUmberUser]

“He cooks.” “He listens.” “He doesn’t cheat.”
Wow. Nobel Peace Prize incoming.

Yeah my DH does about 35% of stuff in the home and everyone thinks he’s amazing. I’m not saying he isn’t but I’m stil doing the most and no one celebrates that

Basically you never hear the term ‘hands on mum’, yet ‘hands on dad’ is a thing.

Yes. I think the problem is that male behaviour across our society is so poor it leads men to believe they are outstanding human beings simply because they don’t hit, rape or murder people. And as for shopping or cooking or cleaning or caring for children - wow, that’s really going above and beyond.

Well, personally I care not a jot for ‘societal expectations’ I’m not interested in being with a dead beat…happily, I didn’t marry one.

The 'women, raise your bar' stuff. Yes, I hear you but it is beyond tiresome that everything is always put on women to fix. Every problem with male behaviour is handed over to women to address. It's hardly ever 'men, sort your shit out and behave like useful adults'.

Why are men not ashamed to behave like children who expect mummy to clean up after them and organise their lives? Because every excuse is made for them by society

It's why I've been divorced three times. I warned them. They didn't listen.
I'm not a skivvy.

Numerous times. I organised lots of activities: and paid for them.

Ok but that’s what the thread is about.

THIS!!!

Why is it ALWAYS the job of women to fix men and never the job of men to be better.

We had a day out, then a lot of cinema, theatre visits which I mostly arranged, few dinners out. Not straight to going to his house.
All evening things though. I felt like a vampire.
I did talk to him about going for days out, suggested times, gave him chances.

I remember dumping a lad when we were 21. He didn't know how to cook fucking pasta. Goodbye. Very unattractive.
DH does his fair share, cooks more than I do but cleans less. Does more of the stuff around kids school and uni, far better at organising things than me. I do more house maintenance.

All our teen boys cook well, can sort of clean (this is a sticking point), if any of their partners don't pick them up on being lazy bastards I will encourage them to do so!

More decent men need to call out the twats.

People laugh at my DH when he picks up other guys for saying they are babysitting or the likes.

He's seen as the odd one in our local pub as he's regularly seen out and about with 3 kids, and even has them for whole weekends without me needing to batch cook or sort outfits before I go.

He was widowed with a toddler before we met and the difference in how he was treated compared to a female friend of his in the same circumstances really highlighted it to him, and really annoyed him.

I suspect that men don’t believe they need fixing. They are happy how they are.

You think its 'on women' that adult men behave in unsatisfactory ways? That men will only ever meet the minimum standard set for them by women? That they're incapable of setting good standards for themselves and require lifelong vigilance and caretaking from a woman?

I can relate to this

It fucking amazes me that 99% of men would rather be divorced by their wives than do a domestic chore. They literally give away their kids and half their wealth rather than do their fair share.

I think this is the answer, unfortunately - though I agree with the sentiment that male behaviour is not women’s problem to fix. Why would they just decide as a collective to BE better? ‘I think I’d like to do more of the unpaid invisible thankless boring drudge work that’s exhausting and currently done mostly by women.’

Yes it’s annoying. My mum used to say that H was babysitting! And yes the performance washing and clearing up is also a feature!

Hopefully the next generation will be better. My DS is a good cook and he does the washing for him and his girlfriend and doesn’t see it as an issue - just a job to be done. Although saying that my dad (who would have been mid 80s now) did 50% of household tasks and thought men who didn’t were lazy buggers.

I think men and some women have a role to play in men being better.

If Steve knew he'd lose his mates, or be kicked out the five a side team, or not invited to stag dos for not paying his child maintenance or for being a dickhead to his partner or the likes then Steve would be more likely to not be a dickhead.

If Steve also knew that financially neglecting his children or being abusive to a partner was likely to mean that his mum and sister wouldn't want to know him and that his sex lite was going to be over because no other woman would date him he'd also be less likely to be a dickhead.

It's unlikely to ever happen though as very few men give a shit how their mates behave, and many men will always talk round their mums and new partner about the "psycho" ex.

When it comes ro partners, people generally get what they accept.

If you forgive low level cheating/messaging/sexting in the early days, don't be surprised when you find yourself with an unfaithful man.

If he tries to exert boundaries around where you go/what you wear out of 'concern', don't be surprised when you find yourself with an insecure, controlling man.

If you do everything, don't be surprised when you end up doing everything.

I'm 51. I've dated men of all ages between 18 and 61 and I've never had a relationship with a man who didn't take an equal share of responsibility or make an effort because I've never got as far as a relationship with any of the men who were like that. I've known since I was 15 that I had no intention of 'keeping house' for a man or mummying a man and I don't think it's any surprise that I've never been expected to either.

I was married to a man who cheated. He was gone within 24 hours

I have dated men who were otherwise great except for... I dumped them.

It's no accident nor good fortune that the man I'm with now is a genuinely decent man. And, should I ever discover that he isn't, he'll be gone too.

And far too many women are happy to lap up the 'crazy ex' narrative and then fall over themselves to show that they are nothing like that.

Usually by showing how willing they are to accept the same shit behaviours that the ex complained about which got her labelled as crazy in the first place!

@Shenmen i have two sons. They can cook simple meals, load and empty the washing machine and bins. I'm not letting them get away with doing nowt Lol

No. But women are responsible for marrying them.

They could say no.

I remember when my husband would push the hoover around when he was unemployed and I was working full time. He would tell me with a flourish when I got home .. like he was expecting a round of applause of something.

I once asked if he would give the bathroom a clean. I got home and he said 'I put bleach down the toilet but I have no idea what products to use"

I really noticed this when our DC were small and DH as a stay at home parent for a while. It was an arrangement that worked for us- my job was well paid but involved lots of travel/long hours whereas his job was badly paid and he hated it. He did the same as most SAHP in the area- took the DC to toddler groups/school etc, made sure they were clean and fed, did some of the housework/shopping/cooking. I was repeatedly told how very lucky I was that he was such an amazing and selfless Dad, and that I was able to concentrate on my career. I never once heard anyone tell husbands of SAHMs how lucky they were. DH decided to retrain after a few years, then we both worked part time and shared the childcare. Again, I was told how incredibly lucky I was that DH was going back to work to enable me to have 'a break'. So basically I was told that DH parenting his children was nothing short of heroic whereas me doing the same was time off.

I'm of the opinion if you're the type of woman who puts up with shitty behaviour and makes excuses for it, it's on you.

People can only do to you what you allowed them to get away with.